What did Osho die from?
Sannyas News Editor Parmartha examines the views and evidence
Maybe it doesn’t matter. However Osho himself certainly seems to have thought it was worth examination, and thought (under Amrito’s influence) that he was dying of thallium poisoning between 1985 and 1989, which was somehow administered to him in the USA (in 1985) when he was separated from his close disciples, and taken from one prison to another for 10 days after being arrested in North Carolina, and before arriving back in Oregon.
However there are many other hypotheses, including that he just “gave up” after some thirty years of being the servant of God.
We also all must own up to the fact that Osho took nitrous oxide over many years, and the spin of those in charge of public relations in all the various bodies that now take Osho’s work forward don’t like to discuss this or even acknowledge this. This seems to apply equally to Osho International, to Osho World and to Arun’s outfit in Nepal.
In fact I have seen many deny this hallucinogenic aspect of Osho’s life altogether. However these are easily refuted by reference to the three articles that were written under the collective title “Tooth Truth: Memoirs of a Dental Triumvirate” and printed in the March/April 2001 Edition of Viha Connection. They were written by Nityamo, Ashru and Devageet. Nityamo and Ashru were at various times dental assistant’s to Devageet, who was Osho’s personal dentist from around 1978 to his death. Particularly in Nityamo’s account, but also in Ashru’s, it is clear that Osho had three periods of nitrous oxide usage, Poona One, on the Ranch and in Poona two. Some commentators have denied Osho’s use of nitrous oxide in the Poona two period. Even a brief examination of Nityamo’s article, when she speaks of sessions and dates them in 1987 and 1988 contradict this. For some reason public relations people for Osho don’t wish to acknowledge Osho’s use of laughing gas after 1985 and, only in a passing way, before that time. I suspect the pre 1985 scenario is because they want to distance Osho’s use of the gas away from proximity to his death. Further I can only assume this is done because they feel it subtracts from their view that the main cause of Osho’s death was poisoning by the US government, not Osho’s own use of nitrous oxide.
Secondly some have questioned the amount of nitrous oxide that Osho was absorbing. I can only suggest people read these three articles. It is clear that Osho was sometimes calling sessions two or three times a day even in Pune one. Just as Osho rightly claimed that he had spoken more words than any other teacher living or dead in his life, it is fair enough comment that he might well have inhaled more than any other known nitrous oxide user over the three periods. If so, it must have had a very deleterious effect on his overall health in a body already weakened by diabetes. However it is also clear from a careful examination of the text of the three Osho books dictated under nitrous oxide (Notes of a Madman, Books I have loved, and Glimpses of a Golden Childhood) that this was very much Osho’s own choice, and that he was encouraging his Noah’s Ark as he called his helping team, to forget his bodily welfare.
The other rather facile argument put forward is that all these sessions were for dentistry purposes only. However it is clear if one reads the “Nitrous books” that this is not the case. There is clear evidence there that Osho is encouraging his team of helpers to increase for example the dose, and then record his experience of the drug.
I continue to have an open mind on Osho’s use of nitrous oxide and his death. The symptoms of nitrous oxide poisoning are very similar to thallium, and of course there may have been more than one cause of Osho’s death, but laughing gas simply cannot be ruled out as having no effect on his health at all.
I also continue to have an open mind about whether Osho simply considered his use of nitrous oxide part of his private life which was no-one else’s business (which some argue) , though I doubt it because he must have authorised, and even pushed for the publication of the three ‘nitrous’ books. Sheela and Vivek in a strange alliance (they agreed on little else) certainly did not want them published.
Some commentators consider that those such as myself who remind others of this hallucinogenic aspect of Osho’s life “negative” and “not really disciples”!
Odd, for me it makes Osho more interesting, rather than less. But apart from that, anyone who is really on the mystic path cannot refrain from examining the truth, however unpalatable. What think ye?
I think, It is pretty clear from Swami Rajneesh mystical book “Tears of The Mystic Rose”
that Osho died not from laughing gas but in the process of Correcting buddha field.
I suggest curious people to read Rajneesh book and know the truth about Osho’s death
love
amitabh
something that puzzled and amused me in the resort is that deep meditators,enquiring deeply into the mystery taht is life, file religiously into the samadhi to have their white-sock induced satoris,and as they walk past the “dental room”does anyone ever ask what on earth a fully kitted out dental theatre with the walls idiosyncratically covered with mirrors,which gives the effect of something like being inside of a mirror ball,
is doing there?
maybe it is his last message.
these are the choiceless choices:
try to drive around in a rolls royce.(zorba)
try to meditate in the cold samadhi (buddha)
sit in a comfy chair,get blasted and laugh your head off (beyond all duality)
it looks ridiculous to look into all the aspects of Osho, the master, the Buddha of our time.
Old conditioning prohibits such attitude, institutions built with precise calculations also hinder the human aspects of their gods, enlightened people don´t perspire or turn grey or they are always born different than the other billions.
but as i understand Him, this kind of mythological supremacy serves no purpose.
Osho took prescription medicines or laughing gas to reduce the pain and enhance the feel good atmosphere, will not reduce Osho´s contribution at all, but it surely shows His dependency on the medical team lead by His very faithful doctor.
And also one can presume that this artificial substances distorted the ground perception, few thousand western around and may be it created the picture that the great and ambitious civilisation of the west is crumbling, i am sure these people must have also pictured very grim picture of their home countries to get the approvals from their saviour of that time. if a cough or some smell in an open auditorium could effect his delicate health, the medicinal doses,most probably will also create the adverse effect.
“Let me go to America and fix the problem”, and the history has shown, the one of the biggest Challenger to the supremacy of the west has to go back home with the share or real estate quick bucks of his newly joined prodigal son, the saviour of the master ans as it is till now, the sole custodian of His work in its most rightful form, at least this is the belief one gets.
Amitabh.
What do you think, because Swami rajneesh wrote a book and people should trust his self colored esoteric version of things.
The other week, i got the pateince to turn the pages of this highly over rated book on the net and feel astonished how he spins the events as per his convinience till the point, Rajneesh dies and reborn on 19th January 1990 and will never die.
Wearily because you hate Osho, or maybe you hate me, I do not know or understand why…a choice perhaps…
The articles do say there were periods when Osho had daily dental sessions of several hours. The articles do not say he had nitrous oxide every session or most sessions. We simply do not know how much nitrous oxide he took. The articles do not tell us that. We do not know if he took NO2 at every dental session, or once every hundred sessions. We do not know.
You write :
“There is clear evidence there that Osho is encouraging his team of helpers to increase for example the dose, and then record his experience of the drug.” Where is this in the three articles (which I still have.)?
I think what you write is defamatory really. You write : “We also all must own up to the fact that Osho took nitrous oxide over many years.” But we do not know how much he took. You would not like it if someone said to your employers that you took nitrous oxide over many years.
What so ever Osho did….
please see the below site of one of the Indian guru, chosen randomly, and immediately one can feel immense regard and gratitude for Osho…
http://divinelight.info/about.html
As a by standard observer and researcher i have to say that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Osho used NO2 on a daily basis.
I interviewed the people who were with him in the dental sessions and devageet, and my conclusions are that there is no evidence for an addiction or continuous use of NO2.
There is no certainty of the cause of osho´s death.
The thallium theory was not invented by amrito, but it was suggested by doctors who saw the samples taken to europe. radiation was also suggested for the degeneration of his jaw.
I can go to great lengths about the specific aspects of the research i did. You can also read some of it in my article published here.
As you can understand I have no interest to prove anything In favor of Osho. I personally do not care weather he died of coke addiction or shot himself.
However I do care when people are misinformed and create theories based on rumors.
tony,
but can i just point out one thing?:
an impartial observer who doesnt care if osho was a coke addict or shot himself
but who has done 4 years solid of osho meditations,admirer of osho`s contribution to therapy,from the viewpoint of a professional psychotherapist and spent spiritual holidays at the resort for over 20 years,has a sanyasin girlfriend,i think??
maybe it`s just my taste in storytelling……..
but,frankly,not a credible creation at all….
What makes it is difficult for you is that facets o raspects are not part of your mind set.
I honestly do not care how he died. My admiration for the man is not that of surrendered disciple. I see the man, the contribution, the scope and the flaws, the mistakes, the lies and the deceit. If he died of No2 addiction does not change anything to me.
I am a by standard… not an impartial observer. How can i be impartial? I admire the man immensely.
I am a by standard observer, because despite all that you describe, I am not part of the movement, I am not a sannyasin and I stand by my criticism of the old man.
When you surrender, your doubting mind disappears. It is not my case. i do not see Osho as a savior or holy person.
Sannyasins have problems with facing certain aspects of Osho because they have an emotional investment on his being perfect.
I do not.
So, going back to No2… It is an unsustainable idea. the same with his involvement in Sheela ´s crimes.
My research contradicts that. That is all.
Now, if you want to talk about other warts… I have found many.
Again, You guys are spreading UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMORS!!!! Another mirror for you hypocrites!! Or douche bags? Which is it? Hey Anand, tell those douche bags at Sannyasnews to stop bringing up the past and BE HERE NOW!!!! Guess who’s having a good belly laugh now? READING SANNYAS NEWS IS BETTER THAN ALL OF OSHO’S MEDITATIONS COMBINED!!! Change the name to “LOSERS NEWS”—– that’s what the regular readers are— LOSERS.. Nice to know that it’s easy to piss Anand off!!!!
osho died because his body was getting old and weaker. My opinion is osho died of illnesses he had , but at the same time i feel that he died in aloneness.
jayesh and amrito has made that false story that they were with in his last mintues ……these false stories and statements were made to take control of osho and he work and commune . this is my strong feeling. i might be wrong , please throw some light on my views
Dear Shantam
Swami Rajneesh book is not over rated.
I think, He had overrated the intelligence or autnenticity of Osho lovers.
You have rise to understand the book.
Just one question - Do you ever meditate, or witness your thoughts?
Osho had died before time and the credit goes to every one.
All those people who have acted irresponsibly have contributed to death of Osho.
May be Osho was trusting his people too much and the total freedom given to sannyasins lead to this thing.
Forget about the old time…. now also I do not see good contribution from the old generation of Sannyasins except few rare souls like dhanyam, arun etc
Osho was killed by the governement of America..
because he was spreading
the TRUTH
to humanity
which is against the vested interests
of the establishment..
the churches and governenments
wants slaves to work for them…
understanding the truth
would liberate mankind
from slavery
from
greedy priests and politicians
so they will become conscious
of what has been done to them.
.we can change the course..
if we manage to create communes..
alone we cannot do anything..
and a commune should be raised in a rich country..
according to osho
who said that communism is
not for
poor countries like Russia and China..
Germany and America will have to start..
Oregon is still there….
Germany is ready to surrender
provided we get
meditators - MYSTICS from the east
the western scientist
will not be able to work it out
without the eastern MYSTIC
The guys here have clearly not visited Osho’s samadhi as one contributor points out. It is clearly been left by Osho as a testament to his nitrous sessions, and very psychedelic it is too. . Before comment, take the risk and go there for yourself.
As for the Thompsons of this world despite their erudition they have clearly not read “Notes of a Madman”. There clearly Osho is talking to his team about increasing the dose, etc, and it is also clear that edevageet is unhappy that this is happening. Please read the book and visit the samadhi before opining further. Osho had to insist that this was published despite the opposition of Sheela and Vivek.
Not rumour plain fact to anyone acquainted with the samadhi and this book.
” Just as Osho rightly claimed that he had spoken more words than any other teacher living or dead in his life, it is fair enough comment that he might well have inhaled more than any other known nitrous oxide user over the three periods ”
How come you link these two Paramartha? Yes. he spoke more words than any other.. But how does make it fair to assume he inhaled more nitrous oxide ? What is the link between these two?
I also saw article written by you in sannyasworld and someone who was lab assistant at that time clarified that Osho never used nitrous oxide continuosly..
” in the process of Correcting buddha field.”
How can a Buddha die of the effort to correct a Buddhafiled..
This is the best assumption of all.. What do you think Frank?
sannyasnews..
what nonsense are you talking?!
you must be a psychedelic-braintumor..
read the BOOKS of OSHO
where he talked about his poisoning in America…
are you people scared to admit
that these governements are criminals?
then why call yourself sannyasins.. ?!
you are not rebels..
you are christians.. white sheep
class cowards…
.insane
and you´re not gonna survieve this holocaust
go and mind your own businesses..
work as a slave
and pay 50% of your income
tax to the governements..
who will destroy this planet earth
which has become a madhouse
because of you
idiots…
Sannyasnews. I read notes of a madman. I saw the dental chair chair in the samadhi.
The discussion is not weather Osho used No2. the discussion is if he used it on a daily basis, asa recreational drug and therefore died of the addiction symptoms.
Devageet, Osho personal dentist from Poona one, to the end of Osho´s life stated: “Osho never used nitrous oxide, I used it, as his dentist, during his dental treatment sessions. Osho, as other masters have demonstrated (see Baba Neem karolie taking a massive dose of LSD on his first meeting with Guru Ram Dass, and showing no effects whatsoever), showed that the effects of Nitrous Oxide during his dental treatment had no effects of diminishing his clarity and awareness. He repeatedly showed that he could easily use the physiological effects of relaxation for a creative purpose, hence the three books dictated while in the dental chair: “Notes of a Madman”, “Books I have loved”, and “Glimpses of a Golden Childhood”. Having said that I can speak about aspects which do not betray that trust. Nitrous Oxide is a valid and valued analgesic and anesthetic agent, as you know, and it still provides the basis of anesthetic techniques because of its proven track record of safety and efficacy. It is a fact too that people have used it for leisure purposes. Osho was given nitrous oxide in a purely dental context.”
Also, Sw. Jalal the dental equipment technician stated the following: “during the Ranch and in Poona 2 I was the dental room technician, responsible for looking after the equipment. Unless Osho was having surreptitious sessions without my knowledge, he wasn’t using gas on a daily, or even weekly basis.
the books sannyasnews mentiones were dictated in “the context” of dental sessions. It does not mean that he was speaking with the drill in his mouth…which is quite difficult indeed. We do not know how long the team of Devaraj, Devageet and their assistant Ashu stayed together listening to Osho. Second, two of the so called Books “Notes of a mad man” and “Books I have loved” are actually small pamphlets. Consisting of 13 sessions the first and 16 sessions the second. Both are small books, although they have been printed to look like glossy hard bounds in recent editions, the original ones were paperbacks with colorful pictures in them with a size not exceeding a pocked book. If you read out loud what is said in each session it would not take you more than 8 minutes and in some cases no more than 2.
The other book “Glimpses of a golden childhood” is actually a thick lengthy book that was spoken at the beginning of Osho´s residence in Rajneeshpuram , Oregon. Although it is considerable bigger than the other two books. If you read any chapter out loud it will not take you more than 15 minutes. Those are the lengths he spoke for each session. So we can guess and speculate that in the first years of the ranch, lets say, 1982, 1983, and the beginning of 1984 ( the books were published in late ´84, early ´85) theses books were taken from the “context” of dental sessions were the anesthetic used by Osho´s dentist was N02. None of this is a proof “of dental sessions lasting for months” or “Osho, N02 addiction.”
And a final point I would like to make, why should the master, with his own commune, go to all the trouble of setting up dental sessions and having his teeth removed just because he enjoys having laughing gas? I certainly wouldn’t go to all that trouble, I’d just set up a bottle next to my armchair and get blasted in peace and quiet. So, why did he call any dental sessions? He could not open the faucet?
“The guys here have clearly not visited Osho’s samadhi as one contributor points out. It is clearly been left by Osho as a testament to his nitrous sessions, and very psychedelic it is too. . ”
I visited the Samadhi.
“It is clearly been left by Osho as a testament to his nitrous sessions, and very psychedelic it is too. . ”
I understand his dental surgery was retained for many years; next to the Samadhi, I think. I do not know if it is still there. I think the above sentence is again defamatory.
“… “Notes of a Madman”. There clearly Osho is talking to his team about increasing the dose, etc, and it is also clear that edevageet is unhappy that this is happening. ”
I do not have the book but I would guess it is impossible to conclude from it whether the above happened once, twice, five times or five hundred times.
You may send me the book if you like 139 Station Rd, NW4 4NJ
My quotes are from sannyas news
can´t you admit
THAT
THE AMERICAN GOVERNEMENT KILLDED OSHO???!!
you try to find faults with sannyasins..
.who are innocent compared
to
FACIST GOVERNEMENTS::
here one can make out that you people
NEVER LISTENED TO OSHO
the typical tourists….
Anthony,
in the above post, You have put forward the case quite efficiently, sorting out facts from fictions.
In the very first post Amitabh has mentioned according to rajneesh, “Osho died not from laughing gas but in the process of Correcting buddha field.”
Oh My God-
Why the management team is still alive, they are correcting the Buddha field for years!
So here arises two asumptions, if you are a Buddha, you will die in the process of correcting the energy field around you.
In history there are many instances.. Jesus was hanged and is till hanging to redeem us from our sins.
Osho has always pointed his presence in this exclusive club.
And if you are not-enlightend, you can also go on correcting Buddhafield according to your taste and constituents, but than you will not die as martyer´s death, but like a monarch.
Meera, as you are pointing, it seems a truthful testamony that American govt. or the people working for that govt. have killed Osho in the most clever form.
Whether the directions came from the white house, this Osho can sort out up in the sky with Regan himself, as one can imagine, there every breath passes through a lie detector.
Americans are one of the most devout Christians, it is clear Osho as an illegal immigrant, whose people tried all the tricks for his legal status, pushed the most sacred buttons of host culture and their value system.
So it was clear that revenge will be used as a correcting measure in the name of God, holy ghost and jesus Christ.
My understanding goes berzerk, when i see Osho´s own people using the ugly techniques to silent the opponents.
Some notes from the dental chair for you guys:
DATE: MAY 27, 1988
TIME: 8:45AM
PRESENT:
Today don’t do any drama–I am really getting tired.
So don’t change any places.
Anando–where is ?
Nityamo, it is not right (have to go up higher in chair).
Chetena have you gone out? (No I’m here) just be here with me.
(Hand out to Anando)
Who is helping my hand?
Devageet takes over notes:
Everyobody comes and goes … Chetena.
Now, go to the max whoever you are.
I usually used to laugh at the letters … to whomsoever address, and I am addressing some letter: To Whomsoever It May Concern: take note. It is not at the maximum. Don’t try my sanity. Even in my insanity I will be better than you.
Do you see the change Anando?
Chetana?
(She’s there, she’s too far away to hear.)
Good ____ to be far away. ____
I can hear you I know you are here but the meter is not at the maximum.
You know Devageet. I don’t have to say to you. That I’m a simple .. man of taste who (gives) lives only at the best.
I can even feel Anando coming nearer and you cannot bring the meter to the optimum.
(It’s right at the top Bhagwan.)
Top is not the maximum.
Top is for others–not for Bodhidharma’s, Buddha’s, top is the beginning, not the end.
Why (isn’t) Anando taking notes?
I know. You R, but not very happy (?) Be happy.
I have to … but still Devageet, I can hear your breathing. Again testing my sanity–before burying.
(The meter to its maximum possibility.)
U.R. but the meter does not wear glasses. Alas I should have to make you laugh. You are so serious. But the matter is meter–that I cannot forget, nor forgive anybody. It is never been at the optimum. Devaraj–came in the place of Nity. Can anybody laugh more than me, who is a silent man. Just put the meter to the optimum. It can go still a little more. I want to take risks. that has been my life. Take it down (?) Ok: but nobody (?) listens … Yes. (Laughing) Do you see the change. I can even see the eyes. (Laughing) Quick. you want me (but) (there) is ….. the other. Devaraj I want him. Nity can take his place.
(You want them to change places? Devageet.)
Yes. I am the most (difficult man) even Devaraj can laugh under gas … (laughing). I can hear even Chetena laughing - but the meter is not at the optiumum. Note–Devaraj. No doctor can deceive me. Put it to the maximum.
(Mumbling) ….? I am not …………..?
(??) Where is for Devaraj. It is putting him …? Devageet? Nity. Yes. I am saying Yes so that you can see I’m … ?even under … (gas)? But please don’t bother me, just like an Englishman. Be fearless. But don’t bother me. …?
It is (weak?) I (am?) … doing my laughter on two doctors. I know it is … your (laughing). But Devageet is laughing at his notes?
Great!
So is Osho
Osho had a Darshan Diary titled:
The Sun Behind the Sun Behind the Sun
This would be an appropriate mode of perceiving the discussion here.
Alok John, someone sending you Osho’s book “Notes of a Madman” in the mail would be about as probable as someone sending me $3,000 to go to Pune.
Fortunately, we live in the digital internet age of the 21st century. In the last few weeks I have put up all of Osho’s discourses in PDF file format on my website on the appropriate pages — Osho Discourse Books, Darshan Diaries, and Osho Early Talks.
Here is the page link for “Notes of a Madman” — free, and will download in less than one minute. The books “Glimpes of a Golden Childhood”, and “Books I Have Loved” are also available for fast free viewing.
http://www.livingworkshop.net/ob-notesofamad.html
Also, to the guy who said you could read a chapter from Glimpses of a Golden Childhood in 15 minutes, just try it ! And remember to read as slow as Osho talked. 10 pages of a book text would easily take him 30-45 minutes.
devageet quotes the old ram das and neem karoli baba acid story to explain osho inhaling nitrous ?
lame ducksville,man.
that story was just made up to get hippies to think,”wow,man enlightenment is stronger than acid”
a story of dubious veracity for sure.
i wouldn`t hold too much store in it.
here`s another story,which i worked out for myself.
it may be as irelevant as ,but it is made up of more true facts than the neem karoli baba story……..
the word “osho”was derived from the word “oceanic” as coined by william james–so we read in the intros(by osho) to osho`s books.
well,william james famously experienced those “oceanic” feelings himself.how?
through inhaling nitrous oxide.
you`d have to admit,that for a man who dictated books under nitrous oxide and had a dental surgery that was run with nitrous oxide in his samadhi,or mauseleum
——that would have to be an amazing co-incidence?
the dialogue in the diary of a madman when osho is saying about the dial “go to the max”
always reminds me of the rocker in “spinal tap” who had an amp that went up to eleven…for that “extra push over the cliff”
that acid story was surely bogus, as admitted finally by the Ram Das dude himself, I believe, used as a PR marketing device — maybe Alpert felt guilty finally about the whole thing. Like some grunt saying “my drill sargaent can drink 6 quarts of straight vodka and still hits the bulls eye with his M-16, isn’t this military system we’re involved in great…” yeah, right…sure…
Osho had a definite tendency too, to hook onto authors that he had read in his book reading days. Like William James, with the “oceanic” thing, ” ‘osho’ defines the experiencer…”, yeah, right…. that’s classic Osho for ya….haha..
“Osho” is a reverential word from the East used to address a Zen Master. That simple.
Also,
you would think that a thoroughly modern man like Osho would not have to be burdened with the thoroughly old-fashioned “nitrous oxide” thing — with the tanks, hoses, masks, possible illegality, and all. It seems so …uh, 19th century. Such a cumbersome method, with all the wonders of modern pharmaceuticals available. Seems odd. Maybe he wanted the controversy that the whole deal generated.
Bob, I looked at your Notes of a Madman pdf, did a quick search, but could find nothing about increasing the dose of NO2.
The editor who lives in London prob has a first edition. Later editions probably change. So you see it is not quite irrational asking him to mail it a few miles to me also in London.
But I think I read a first edition once and as far as I recall it sheds no light on the quantity of NO2 consumed.
I think there is pretty good circumstantial evidence that Osho was murdered by the US government. The editor just has a bee in his bonnet about NO2 , or “likes to stir” ( his own words), or who knows what is going on in his mind?
Bob wrote : “Also,
you would think that a thoroughly modern man like Osho would not have to be burdened with the thoroughly old-fashioned “nitrous oxide” thing — with the tanks, hoses, masks, possible illegality, and all. It seems so …uh, 19th century. Such a cumbersome method, with all the wonders of modern pharmaceuticals available. Seems odd. ”
The most reasonable explanation is the one given by the Inner circle. He was poisoned, this affected his bones and teeth, and therefore he needed tons of dentistry.
PS How an intelligent intelligence agency might have murdered Osho…
You ascertain the dose of thallium needed to kill a man in his fifties in five years. You administer a third of that dose.
You ascertain the dose of radiation needed to kill a man in his fifties in five years. You administer a third of that dose.
You ascertain the dose of another poison needed to kill a man in his fifties in five years. You administer a third of that dose.
So Osho dies in five years but does not quite have the symptoms of thallium poisoning or radiation poisoning or of any poisons in the textbooks.
mmm….Alok “Sherlock” John….very intriguing.
do you really work for MI-6?
or…
are you… 007 himself…Bond, James Bond?!
you are taking the position against the sannyasnews editor, who you say “likes to stir”.
and you, Bond, like it “shaken, not stirred,”
isn’t that correct?
mmm, very interesting…..
we may have to call in Inspector Clouseau to unravel all these dark and shadowy goings on…
yes bob,
definitely something old-fashioned about nitrous.
altho it was around in the sixties(so i hear)and i did see it at rave/techno venues.
nitrous and valium,so the stories go–definitely not very groovy or cutting edge,i would say.
he tried to play the groovy thing a bit,but i dont thik it was really him
the rolls royces-a bit rockstar cheesy with the psychedelic designs etc
apparently,in oregon,i heard,one time he went out in in his rolls with zz top playing full blast.
apparently he thought it was “jazz”
must have been great:
shades,beard.
“gimme all your lovin`
dont give up until we`re through…”
Parmartha,
As i have read some where in the previous threads, you are part of the Osho movement for more than three decades.
Won´t it be relevant to ask, ” how did Osho´s throbing work at Pune die from”.
Few will say, it has not died, it is surviving beautifully as resort..
What is your opinion, as a British Sannyasin from the same social back ground, about the Gordon Brown of 17, Koregaon Park.
Bob, I once sent in a rather poor job application to MI6 but they did not want me. Probably too old and anyway an unsuitable job for me. They sent me a polite letter of rejection.
We cannot let posts that quote Osho at great length on this blog and have taken down one. We have already been warned of copyright problems in quoting Osho by the authorities, and also letting others quote him. Please use the acadmeic guide here, use short quotes that support your own arguments only.
Frankly the business of quoting Osho is always fraught anyway. This is because he spoke on so many topics both for and against any position. He was in the buisiness of foxing the mind until one came out of it…. not some Oxford don parading his logic.
I cannot for the life of me see how anyone who read Notes of a Madman could say that Osho did not take nitrous oxide and enjoyed it.
There are clear passages as Anand quotes briefly in this blog where he asks for the meter to be made higher, and even when it hits the highest mark,Osho tells his disciples they are mistaken.
Of course one thing not mentioned here is that he was “working” on those close disciples. The Devageets and Amritos of this world gave a very great deal of love, time and money to keep Osho’s work in the forefront. Arguably this close work with them, and on them, was part of their reward!
Osho liked his dentist’s chaIr, his back seemed to be perfectly rested there, and with the nitrous he was also out of pain. He didn’t get blasted just sat in front of his fire alone. He liked to play with these disciples, and to work on them at the same time and by chance he found that the dental chair was just great for this purpose.
The damage to Osho’s health was actually done in Pune one. I was there when these things started to kick in in 1981. Osho was in real bad health then, and unable sometimes to get off the floor, and did not lecture for many months. When he came and sat in silence with us he often looked real bad. The reportage of the sessions from the dental assistants at the time just before this setback to his health, indicate that sometimes the sessions took place several times a day.
For these sessions Devageet was the scribe of the group. Osho instructed on the Ranch that the tapes of each session be taped over the following day, just to allow Devageet only one day to make his notes. Another simple plan of the Master taking Devageet to the limit of his resistence and ego.
Frank.. Your post about William James was a real surprise..Sure does not look like co-incidence..I got this from wikipedia
” The investigation of mystical experience was constant throughout the life of James, leading him to experiment with chloral hydrate (1870), amyl nitrite (1875), nitrous oxide (1882), and even peyote (1896). James claimed that it was only when he was under the influence of nitrous oxide that he was able to understand Hegel.[19] He concluded that while the revelations of the mystic hold true, they hold true only for the mystic; for others, they are certainly ideas to be considered, but can hold no claim to truth without personal experience of such.”
Buy knowing Osho and his ways of doing things i am personally not worried about what he took and how much he took etc ..He was real razy in everything ..Why to break our head over this.. He wrote ‘ Notes of a madman ‘ But it is ‘ US ‘ who are going mad over everything.. He is continuing to do His work even now…
” He was in the buisiness of foxing the mind until one came out of it…”
He is still carrying on that work..20 years after leaving the body.. What a madman He is..
Frank.. I still await your opinion on that great assumption that Osho died of the effort to correct a Buddhafield.. Thats is the biggest and the most thoughtful comment from Rajneesh I think..
Osho should have waited for nano technology
” scientists like American futurist Ray Kurzweil predict that man could become immortal in as little as 20 years through new age-defying aids”
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/73447/Radar/Forever+young.html
Parmartha. the discussion is not weather osho ever took No2 and liked it. the question is weather it was recreational drug or an anesthetic used in dental sessions. I have found no proof for the later.
my english… I have found no proof for the first assertion.
Editor writes : “Frankly the business of quoting Osho is always fraught anyway. This is because he spoke on so many topics both for and against any position.”
Yes but He never contradicted himself about being poisoned in jail in America.
Editor suggests that He might have died of NO2 poisoning. Let’s think about this….
Devageet/Amrito/Jayesh know he is doing too much NO2 but cannot stop him. They guess in 87 or 88 it will kill him. They persuade Osho that his symptoms following his incarceration are not due to NO2, but are the result of poisoning in jail. This accounts for the long speech in 87 or 88 where he says he was poisoned in jail (the one taken down). They persuade the dental nurses, Anando, Shunyo, everyone else of the truth of this story. No one is suspicious. Alternatively they tell Anando, Shunyo, maybe others, he is killing himself with NO2, and tell them they are making up this story (to defend themelves from the ire of the sannyasins??); Anando, Shunyo are sworn to secrecy.
And the truth never gets out after 20 years with all these people involved? I don’t think so. It would be very difficult to create a watertight conspiracy with so many people involved
I insist. the non-sannysins doctors who examined the samples taken by Amrito and Yogi in europe suggested heavy metal poisoning… probably thalium.
The dentist consulted for the deterioration of his jaw suggested radiation.
those are the facts.
You need to become more accurate here.
Nitrous oxide is N2O. Two connected atoms of nitrogen, together with one atom of oxygen.
If you write NO2, as has been done here in this forum, that would be one atom of nitrogen, with a with a doubled oxygen atomic package. That molecule is not nitrous oxide. Has no analgesic or anesthetic effects. Osho did not use it. Etc.
A written symbol, whether a chemical notation or a word in your language, only can have a use in communication if the meaning of it is agreed upon by both the writer and the reader.
In chemical molecules, like N2O, this is fairly easy.
In words that attempt to denote more amorphous and less precise entities, the communication becomes quickly fraught with confusion.
Like when someone uses the word “enlightenment”.
Or “conspiricy”. Or “love”. Or ‘truth”.
And to correct another error, that word above is misspelled — it should be “conspiracy.”
But in this case, we all know what the word is.
But, H20 is water. You drink it. Your body is 70% composed of it. You would die without it. H02 would not do the trick. At all.
And as to conspiracy, remember too, that there can be “good” conspiracies, and there can be “bad” conspiracies. Most people tend to focus on the ‘cabal of evil conspirators’ when this word is used. Not necessarily so. Pertaining to the Osho stories, this should be kept in mind.
Alok john says:
“And the truth never gets out after 20 years with all these people involved? I don’t think so. It would be very difficult to create a watertight conspiracy with so many people involved.”
So many, Alok? 5 people? That doesn’t sound like so many to me.
Anthony says:
“the non-sannysins doctors who examined the samples taken by Amrito and Yogi in europe suggested heavy metal poisoning… probably thalium.
The dentist consulted for the deterioration of his jaw suggested radiation.
those are the facts.”
Facts, Anthony?
Who are these doctors and dentists?
Is there any written verification of their findings?
Is there any proof that any samples were sent anywhere for examination, other than Osho saying so?
These doctors and dentists seem to glory in the weight of their “suggestions.” I’m sure I could get a ton of doctors who could “suggest” something else. Happens every day in court medical malpractice lawsuits.
Professor “just the facts, m’am” Thompson should do a little deeper digging, than just believing some sannyasin “spokeperson” — or even Osho for that matter. He was known to tell some tall tales in his illustrious career.
POLITICIANS ARE THE LOWEST KIND AS FAR AS CONSCIOUSNESS IS CONCERNED. They are CLEVER, they are CUNNING, they are MEAN, too; and they make every effort for a single goal — how to be more powerful. THEIR ONLY DESIRE IS FOR MORE POWER — not for more peace, not for more being, not for more truth, not for more love.
AND WHAT DO YOU NEED MORE POWER FOR? — TO DOMINATE OTHERS, TO DESTROY OTHERS. All the power accumulates in the hands of unconscious people.
So on the one hand, POLITICIANS IN ALL THE CIVILIZATIONS THAT HAVE DEVELOPED AND DIED — it would be better to say have committed suicide — HAD ALL THE POWER IN THEIR HANDS. And on the other hand, the genius of human intelligence was searching for more and more technological, scientific ways. And all that they discovered finally had to go into the hands of the politicians.
OSHO
The Razor’s Edge
Ch #11: Bring the dawn, dispel the darkness
meera,
are you cracked, or what?
the editor of this forum asked the posters just yesterday to not post extended “copy and paste” Osho excerpts here, and what do you do? Post an extended Osho quote.
and the subject is not even related to what we are discussing here — the nitrous oxide/thalium poisoning Osho death case.
and too, if i remember rightly, you said you were leaving THIS world of sannyasnews, as we are all unconscious.
whatzup, meera? too much sauerkraut lately?
Okay Bob, sorry about N2O.
There were about 20 people appointed to the Inner Circle. There were 2 or 3 dental nurses. Maybe twenty-five people fairly close to Osho in the last years of his life including some Indians who subsequently left. So either these people become party to the conspiracy, or they have to be told the false story and believe it.
These were all disparate people. Several of them later fell out with Amrito/Jayesh. But not one of them has ever said s/he thought Osho hadn’t been killed by the Americans. Not one of them has ever said s/he thought Osho had died through consumption of N2O.
So you see I think such a conspiracy would be very hard to maintain. You try keeping a secret amongst sannyasins–it is impossible.
Sannyas news editor is a London sannyasin who was never close to Osho.
As to the names of the doctors, one of the London doctors who suggested thallium posoning was named in one of the books, but I cannot remember the name of the book or the doctor. I do not know if Anthony interviewed the doctors.
There is lots of info in A Passage to America by Max Brecher. Also Maneesha, Juliet Forman, wrote three massive books on the history with tons of detail.
Ok–Osho died because of poison given by the US adminstration.
The admistraion running the show in His name is very much focused to sell the books in the big US market.
The sweet and meditative way of revenge will be to open one of the biggest meditation resort in that country.
It will make the daddy´s soul smile and will also show how much grain prodigal sons have.
As far as Poona is concerned.. it is very much rooted on the map of spiritual tourism, even the ruins of 17, koregaon Park will attract seekers from all over the world.
Hi,
From last few months my mother & father are with me in Kent. we are having good conversation about the Master and Budhaism..
I asked him (in a funny way) Why osho suggested to write “Osho never born never died, only visited this planet earth”Was he alien…
In Hindu religion, no enlighten master has said like this…Budha, Krishna, Mahavir, Kabir or rahul…
and he explained a really good meaning..
In this existance, there are unkown planets and solar system….existance power is developing and distroying the things everywhere in the universe.
only few energy get chance to unit with this energy…
and OSHO meant that after becoming enlighthen he became one with them.and that is the reason he indicated in this mysterious message..
now about the N2O, I believe that he was addicted to compensate the disturbance of the outside world..
remember enlightment is not a permant isolation..
Budha used go for long walk to transfer his disturbance..
some buddhist monk has taken out thier eyes to compensate the external pain..
I donot see any thing wrong in taking N2O..
My father got paralyses attack after staying in room for more then a week….you dont know where your energy will explode…
there is old saint (from Bhopal), used to scrat his hips with rough things…
to calm his exploding energy…
Now if you want to understand it is upto you..
other wise have a good laugh
Alok,
You’re a good man, quite level-headed, and with a penchant for looking at situations with a non-emotional viewpoint…
but, still, I can see why MI6 politely refused your employment application.
Look…
Conspiracies happen all the time, every day in fact. Millions of them. Most are small potatoes, taking place amongst family members, friends, and co-workers.
It starts with one single person, with an idea.
Then it expands to another, and a few close few of like minded ambitions and personalities. Many times a husband will get the wife to go along. Or a child may get a close sibling, brother or sister, to play their game.
Then it expands again to the next concentric circle of maybe 5-10 people, if need be. This level knows less about the plan, the “conspiracy” (it may just be an idea of how to get the parents to go to the local carnival next Saturday). But they are a bit in the know, but a bit suspicious too. These can go on, in families, for the entire lives of the people involved.
Then more are brought in, if you are dealing with an extended conspiracy, but this next group knows even less. They just kinda “play their roles.” It might even be just going to work for the next 9-5 shift. Driving a bus. Being a commodities broker on Wall Street.
And on and on.
The last concentric circle would be the whole world, all the people. If you are politically minded, or religiously minded, or economically minded. In other words, if you have a World-view of your system — and who doesn’t these days!
That’s everyone’s dream anyway, if they could make it happen. Of course almost all can only take their ideas so far, and then it gets bogged down in a thousand and one problems. So they stop. Practical necessity.
Anyway, if you see what I’m saying here, 20-30 close devotional types around Osho would have no trouble whatsoever in “keeping a secret.” For 20 years, or to the grave if need be. Not a problem. Not “impossible” at all. That’s, in fact, why they are chosen by the “One” to surround him. They are ones who will not squack, not squeek, not even tweet or twitter, much less spill the beans. Obedient to the Master Plan. And maybe for some very good reasons too.
Whatever Osho died from, it was his body died. He is alive and well to millions of people, past, now and future!
“He is alive and well to millions of people, past, now and future! ”
Anand tell this to the management.
If He is alive and well to millions of people, what is wrong to celebrate few days connected with OSho.
And it is not asking for something new.
If He is alive to millions of people, these people would like the continuity of the tradtion started by Him, so simple is this.
in fact, why they are chosen by the “One” to surround him. They are ones who will not squack, not squeek, not even tweet or twitter, much less spill the beans. Obedient to the Master Plan….
Obedient to the Master Plan…
Around 20 years ago Master plan´s last wish was revelaed before the packed Buddha Hall gathering.
twenty of them were given the action tak to create a cricle and take care of the expansion of His work. Make space for my people, many more are on the way…kind of things.
Last wish of the glorious master, a responsibilty given no tto the ambitious politicians, MBA´s from business schools, but to those who have spend their life doing meditation, groups and therpaies, the people who were expert in deprogramming the ego….
What happened to that 360 degree circle.
why these people squack,squeek, tweet or twitter?
What did Osho die from????
Shantam Prem, what is your hang up on ‘celebrating days connected to Osho’ and ‘continuity of the tradition’. Which tradition? Don’t you see that this is creating a new religion? Maybe you would like that…..
Why not celebrating every day as a special day? Or if you like to make December 11 a special day, invite some friends together, hang out and meditate together, sing some songs….
Your vision of how to do things better, is also dictated by your traditional upbringing in India. And by now we have realized that there are some two different streams of visions emerging from Osho sannyas, the Bhakti path of devotion and traditions and the Zen path of awakening.
At he end both ways will find their places and spaces to grow.
More dental notes:
Sunday AM, September 3, 1989
It is up to you, Geet.
Where is Raj? (Here) OK. If Raj and Geet are here I can fight with death.
AV hold fast. I love you AV. (Chuckle) I love you all. Also you, Chetena. But please go out of the room while the session is going on. Prepare my bed. I love you. You will not be able to control your unconscious. But Chetena is here? (No). From a distance she is doing the same. Better call her here. What a difficulty for a poor man who can leave this body any moment. First let Raj and Chetena come back.
And Ashu, go to the climax. What kind of a gas you have got?
Is Chetena here? (Coming) Wait. I am so fragile-you cannot understand my roots in the earth are almost broken. I am trying my hard to help you all to experience the ultimate. Otherwise I have no business to live. I am living for you all.
OK Geet.
_____________________________________________________
Again I can hear your hiccups–(No is the drain)
(want to wash out) Do whatever you feel.
______________________________________
Chetena, please stop saying anything.
__________________________________
Do whatever you feel right. You are my doctor. I am just a patient. It is not still OK. Just have another look. You are also my disciple.
OK. A little oxygen. It will be good. I can rest.
It is a strange feeling. As I close my mouth I feel you are working on my teeth. In the night. And I know you cannot be because my mouth is closed. Right now it is there. Do you want to have at look at what can cause it. (gas again?) You can because this happens 3 or 4 times in the night. It is so actual and I know nobody can be doing it. Something in the nerves must be throbbing - in the way.
___________________________
Raj, please help Geet.
____________________
Can something be done. It harasses me the whole 24 hours. Whatever Raj and you decide you will never have such a willing patient. It is hurting now (sigh).
_______________________________
I can see. Don’t disturb your work. (Finished) OK.
___________________________
What a failure of science. I am available. You can take my whole body. It does not matter to me but the pain is unnecessary suffering. I can leave the body this moment.
Raj. What do you think, because as I close my mouth I am still feeling Geet’s work and in the night it becomes terrible.
_____________________________
It is really strange. My mouth is shut and Geet’s work continues inside my mouth. And you cannot think I am imagining.
Geet do you think the explanation can help? (No). I can understand your difficulty. The piercing pain continues (another injection).
______________________________________
Hey Anand,
Where did you get those notes you just posted above, from Sept. 1989?
I have never seen those before.
It would seem only Devageet, or maybe Ma Veena would have access to that text.
Anand, are you really Devageet or Veena?
Shantam Prem, what is your hang up on ‘celebrating days connected to Osho’ and ‘continuity of the tradition’. Which tradition? Don’t you see that this is creating a new religion? Maybe you would like that…
Anand Dear,
For me it is not a question of tradition but of HONESTY and SINCERETY.
I am utterly delighted that because of OSHO, i can walk the walk alone. And OSHO does not mean the Man,,,,, whose pulse was checked by Dr. Amrito and charted flights was billed by Our Jayesh.
Osho means, a complete package…not just books meditation techniques…but HIS PEOPLE and the life style developed under His presence.
Take these people away, take these festivity away and it is Amazon without the birds, animals and forest. Just flat land like any where else.
With thousands others, i have experienced this complete package and therefore there is a sense of gratitude and the responsibility that it should not be pulled out from the market, just because a certain group of people will be unable to have everything under their thumb.
This is what is happening at 17, koregaon park for the last 10 years.
Has the Master left in the mandate to change the working style of ashram, not just the meditation techniques but the way of life developed around in His presence, festivals were created under His chairmanship and i will prefer to be out casted than to follow the dictate of someone else, if he was not chosen particularly as a sole Successor.
If it is so, i have no objection.
Cann´t you see the simple fact that a certain group of people bulldozed the others, by breaking the inner circle.
Mandate was to run the show with UNANIMOUS DECISIONS, and in case of conflict to go on meditating and purifying the points till they are agreeable for all.
Unanimous decisions does not mean that president tells to other members, sign on the blank paper without looking at the contents.
And it is not an arrogance on my side to stick on the point that the present day ashram is a interpretation of the chief disciple.
It is a beautiful rose garden but it is not a BOTANICAL GARDEN, and the mandate was to keep its unique style and functions where different traditions merge and melt with each other.
Those who are unable to manage that are free to create their own interpretation, but than it should be in their world not on the cost of collective heritage.
With a rough estimate thousands of professionals from all branches of life left their carriers to be with Osho during 30 years of His presence.
And after His death, President of the organisation could not find even a small pool of talent amongst His people to run the head quarters of Osho´s work spread on few acres of Pune land.
These thousands of people were suppose to be the magnets to pull others into an experience worth sharing. These thousands of people, the peers of Jayesh and Amrito were systematically sidelined because of their mental blocks.
It is a shame, it is utter humiliation.
It is letting down His teachings.
Hey Anand,
you’ve got some good material there - even a surprise to the old heads here at Sannyasnews!
Thanks for posting them. But how can you authenticate them?
Do you want to say? Do you have the complete archive of dental notes?
If they are authenticated they basically prove my thesis, which i have held for a number of years. Personally I think for someone who knows about this sort of thing that “Notes of a Madman’ are enough, but the “opposition” always contrive to give alternative explanations..
I liked what you said earlier… … … …
Osho is alive here and now, and if I can add… everywhere…. not in some small piece of a middle calss suburb in a polluted Indian city…
Parmartha
The link will allow anyone to read Notes of a Madman”
http://www.livingworkshop.net/ob-notesofamad.html
Shantam: I agree with your points, but sometimes for some unknown reason we have to walk this long walk through the desert alone and who knows what purpose the 17 Koregaon Park property has in the cosmic game of Osho.
hmmmh Parmatha, authenticate? You think I made these up?
I understand your original inquiry and will check the notes for you and post some more, but they are all pretty similar.
In reply to Mr Thompson:
Nitrous Oxide is not addictive and no-one has ever alleged that Osho was addicted to it at sannyasnews. You are clearly someone who is not au fait with the world of hallucengenics. Maybe you should try a few?! LSD for example is also not addictive.
No-one has alleged, and certainly not me that Osho was a daily user of nitrous oxide. I simply state that from 1978 to 1989 he took enough to kill him. There are clearly days when he was working with those close to him, and then he organised several sessions. Mention of this is with th dental assistants.
You can check the effects of prolonged exposure to nitrous oxide on several sites which a researcher such as yourself should be able to find easily.
Hi Anand,
no I dont think you made them up they seem to be authentic Osho to me. However we would be interested in how you got hold of them!! Also they still might be worth publishing as a set as it might stop the Alok John’s of this world and many others to shut up for a while and stop accusing for example me of some kind of desecration of Osho’s memory.
If you were willing to authenticate them in some way then it might actually help many from the wilder shores of sannyas.
Parmartha
Good Anand, this is enough.
Osho is alive here and now, and if I can add… everywhere…. not in some small piece of a middle calss suburb in a polluted Indian city…
Parmartha
Great…this kind of sentences are used for the last 5000 years by the religious types.
Is the religion on the way around Osho too!
( I don´t hate the word or the feelings expressing devotion and gratitude. Religion or Religiousness or what so ever)
Editor wrote : ” I simply state that from 1978 to 1989 he took enough to kill him.”
You don’t know this. This is merely speculation.
I don’t mind discussion. I don’t mind speculation either. In my opinion some of the Editor’s statements are malicious, and I do dislike malice.
Parmatha, let me think about it for a while. Not all has been published of Osho
yet and maybe there is a reason for it. Check the dates though, these notes are from 88 through 89, not from 84. Osho for sure had dental sessions in Pune 2 and used some kind of gas. There were quite a few people present.
Anand
I appreicate the significance of this material. Especillay because so many people deny any involvement of nitrous oxide in Pune 2.
I understand you may wish to protect your sources, quite understandable. But those who cannot stand the thought of their Master being interested in hallucenigenics will just say you made up the text by imitating the Notes of a Madman, and just exaggerrating them… !!
As I have said before I believe that Osho used this whole apparent interest in nitrous as a device whilst working with his close disciples - he wanted to blow their minds. By insisting in the teeth of opposition to the publishing of the 3 books he also wanted to blow the minds of the generality of his disciples, which he seems to have done with you! This would let you off the hook if was just using the nitrous to work with others.
Alok please visit the Erowid site, you will see the effects there of multiple exposure to laughing gas. The fear of this is perfectly evident in the sort of things that Devageet and Amrito were saying to Osho during these sessions. They were very worried. Dont understand why you cant get it.
Parmatha, it is the other way around. I always believed these materials had been published before.
Under these circumstances I cannot publish more right now. I will get in contact with you again, once I have cleared details with my ’source’. I need to read through it all again and look at it with fresh eyes. The notes end in September
89.
One single issue marked Osho’s decline….the ear infection in Pune 2. After this he spent many weeks battling life and death. He survived the battle, yet never really recovered, and after this all the rumors of poisoning spread. The US conspiracy theory nor the NO2 theory fit with the sudden decline marked by the incurable ear infection. Thalium has been shown to cause incurable ear infections. Independent experts suggested thalium poisoning as the most likely cause of illness. Thallium can also be administered through the ear (mixed in a solution). There is a canal from the ear to the back of the throat. In this way, thallium can be ingested. It is a simple, effective and well documented way of killing someone discretely.
Yahoo
Abhay
If SannyasNews really believes in Osho then I assume they subscribe to the view that he is only a detached, witnessing consciousness. Hence there is no reason for engaging in NO2 solely for entertainment purposes.
If the US poisoned Osho, then the most serious ill-effect would have been noted just after the administering of the poison or radiation. It is clearly not the case that Osho suffered from any notable physical effects at the time. Of course the same cannot be said of the emotional state of many of his followers at the time.
Yahoo
Abhay
GREETINGS ON THIS BEAUTIFUL OF OUR MASTER…..OSHO…..to all my friends
First. In the notes published by anand Shunyo is called chetana. and Amritro is called raj, from devaraj.
neither Shunyo or amrito were called like that in `89. By then Osho had changed the names and his. Osho himself called them by the new names.
This makes me doubt the material. although it does look like Osho speaking. but it looks from the times of the ranch.
Second the samples were taken to Harley street specialists in london, and they were the ones who suggested Thalium poisoning
Dr. Jog was the one who treated Osho for the ear infection, that would not reside.
Dr. Darious Mody, a maxillo fascial surgeon from pune, endorsed the idea that osho had radioactive necrosis similar to the people who are exposed to radio active cobalt in the therapy of facial cancer.
Anthony: AV and Nityamo are in the sessions. Does that help?
Editor said “Alok please visit the Erowid site, you will see the effects there of multiple exposure to laughing gas. The fear of this is perfectly evident in the sort of things that Devageet and Amrito were saying to Osho during these sessions. They were very worried. Dont understand why you cant get it.”
Devageet and Amrito may have been worried in these sessions, but they have consistently said Osho’s death was caused by poisoning in jail, not N2O. According to your thesis, they are lying or fools. I do not think they are lying or fools. I do not understand why you think this.
Glad to see you’ve corrected your position from NO2 to N2O Alok. Reminds me of our man Andreas Roth, when he said everyone posts their ideas here, but noone changes a bit. He hadn’t seen anyone modify their positions one iota, one inch. Now we see it can be done. A first. Just a slight juggle of letters, but it’s a start anyway — says the ole’ boy Laozi, “the journey of a hundred li begins with one step.”
And amazing to see all the expertise here in knocking someone off — poison in the ear canal, thalium in the pancake syrup, radiation, nitrous oxide in the dental chair, One-third the dose system, OD on heroin in Bombay hotel rooms…impressive array of methods indeed…
maybe we could start a new country–Sannyas Nation–and get a secret service agency to go along with it too, SI6, or SIA…
Prem Abhay
just out of curiosity ………poison through the ear down to the throat , a well documented way ………?
I ‘ d like to how it could bypass the ear drum since the ear drums stands in the way .
second , the canal between the inner ear and the back of the throat is called the eustachian tube and is almost always closed unless some air pushes its way through to reestablish the balance between inner and outer air pressure .
piercing of the ear drum to allow any type of liquid inside the ear would result in immediatly noticeable hearing loss .
It is Osho’s birthday today, which we do not celebrate.
Here Anthony is a quote about the Blue Om.
You do not now how Osho addressed his disciples even after their name change.
August 20, 1989, 9AM
Chetena, hold my feet. …..
No Ashu, it is not yet. Geet has to say OK. Continue. Be gentle. Raj is to observe. And Ashu, bring it to the climax. I am available. It is OK Ashu. But don’t listen to anybody, including Geet.
Who is going out? Why the door opens? Your gas is not good Geet. You can continue even though it is not perfect.
Raj, take her place. If she wants to go out, it is OK. She will have to do some work. I wanted to be here, then be here. No gas can deceive me. Now two persons are going at my feet. It is good it is laughing gas anyway.
I cannot speak. Anando, answer on my behalf.
Just be here, everyone.
___________________________________________________________
I am laughing not because of the gas but because of the women chattering. Geet, you do your work.
___________________________________________________________
I have told you not to whisper. That’s good. (sigh) It is a basic human right to express, but do your work anyway.
_____________________________________________
Anando, answer Chetena!
_______________________________________________________
Just do exactly what is right to do. I am completely in your hands.
It is really strange. The Sanskrit symbol Om appears before me.
____________________________________________
Geet, don’t whisper, just do.
Anando, note it. The symbol Om appears only at the time of death.
_________________________________________________
Geet, be very careful. That symbol is constantly there before my eyes. “Om”.
_____________________________________________
(Work is finished) OK (Oxygen on?) If you think it is finished.
____________________________________________
(After this session Osho explained about the symbol ‘Om’ and about the Sanskrit symbol which was used backwards by the nazis. He drew the symbols to illustrate–see original notebook.)
Quote below is not from Osho. It is from someone else. I think it is relevant to our discussion here. Many Western sannyasins seem to accept the post-modern idea that there is no such thing as truth. I do not think this was taught by Osho. It is just a contemporary foolish belief.
“The loss of truth is a hallmark of modern times. People seem to believe either that truth does not exist, or that it exists but is not important, or that it exists and is important, but cannot be discovered by the human mind. Whichever way, let us eat, drink and be merry, because if falsehood is as good as truth, then wrong is as good as right, which makes me free to do as I like.
What is truth? Truth is the matching of mind and reality. There is truth in my mind when what is in my mind matches or corresponds to what is outside it, in reality. For nobody seriously believes that there is no reality outside his mind (unless he is mad), because for instance nobody whose car-engine stops does not lift the hood (or bonnet) to find out the cause. Then truth for me exists whenever what is in my mind matches external reality.
Is this truth important? Of course it is. My survival in this life depends from minute to minute on knowing what air is really breathable, from day to day on knowing what food and drink are really consumable…
But can the human mind always know the truth? Indeed sometimes it cannot. But usually in pursuit of the truth, “Where there’s a will, there’s a way”. Often if men do not find the truth, it is not because it cannot be found, but because there is not a real will to find it. Take for instance the present difficult and expensive hunt for the evidence which will tell why the French airliner crashed between Rio de Janeiro and Paris. They may or may not finally tell us the truth, but find it they will, because the safety of future flights may, as far as we know, depend on it.
Let nobody pretend that any truth could not be found when there was a way to find it. He merely demonstrates his lack of will to find it. There is a great lack of such will in what is still called “Western civilisation”. That is why it is Satanic.”
It is Osho’s birthday today, which we do not celebrate.
How many people can make, We?
More than one…
As per the dictates of Osho Vatican with reverse v, All Osho festivals have been deleted, but the offshoots of small groups do celebrate this day.
Osho world in Delhi and Köln Buddhafield are few mentioned in google search.
Hundereds of centres in India and most probably all over the world, who may not be google savvy, definately celebrate this day.
We can judge the age of a child, when he stays on the chair and says, ” daddy, look i am taller than you.”
Similar is the age of those who decided with life long contemplation, ” Everyday is a celebration.”
it seems the littlle man with long beard, who is suppose to be the master of these anglo saxon intelligentia was not aware about this. His bigger than life size ego wanted to create a celebration similar to Buddha Mahavira Nanak or Jesus kind of day.
Till His last breath, He did not get that wisdom, which his disciples brag about, “Everyday is a celebration.”
Any way beloved Anand, today was a right opportunity for me to buy some black forest cake for my meditative colleagues.
Parmartha: What part of “Be Here Now”, don’t you understand?
Bubbie has wriiten two one liners in two threads in two minutes, quite a telegraphic entry after a long time.
Has someone forgotten the doubts about Bubbie´s identity?
Parmartha,
just dig the old thread by you.
What is your commentary after these 9-10 years, also why you missed the famous Poona two phase, was there some disillusionment or other personal reasons?
Commentary on Poona 2000
from Parmartha
The Enduring Paradox
I lived physically around Osho for some parts of the Poona One period 74-81, and was a commune member between 82-86 in Medina, Hamburg, the Ranch and London. I hadn’t been in India since 1981 but visited the Poona ashram for the month of February this year. When Osho died in 1990 I thought one way or the other way that the organisation would gently slip away. I almost felt that was what he would have intended, given the fact he had confided that he had deliberately allowed his church (Rajneeshism) to exist within his lifetime, and finished it too. So this commentary exists also unexpectedly, people still do in their many hundreds, from both the old world and the new, find their way to the Gateless Gate, the Poona Ashram.
It was also to my surprise that what can only be described as Osho’s energy, the energy of a Buddhafield, seemed to drench Buddha Hall (where Osho used to lecture and where most of the meditations still take place) and the Samadhi (where his ashes are) and thereby in a way the whole of the Ashram and surrounding street areas. I could not believe the power of it. It was for me as when he was alive. The synchronicity of a Buddhafield was also still there, the way you would meet just the right person at the right time – yes, that was still there. Was it still the magnet of his energy pulsing out destroying all bad-mouthing, all opinion, all bad press, that continues to draw those thousands there?
Changes?
There were changes from the organisation that upset some, “his” chair is not put out for the White Robe meditation, people can now take sannyas wearing jeans, there are no photos of Osho anymore, you don’t have to religiously wear a maroon robe in the Ashram. His picture is no longer on the front covers of the books. (All current changes). Gossip says its all a preparation for making the place a resort acceptable to anyone, a sort of deculted cult! Paradox, just like many decisions, (if such a decision it is), when Osho was actually alive, it defies common sense, can anyone really see the outskirts of a highly polluted Indian town in a climate not suitable for many Europeans (outside the November-February season) as good “Resort” material. If so it beats me! Similarly could anyone in 1981 really see a desert place unsold for 50 years becoming a garden paradise full of seekers?
Unchanged?
It was that which had not changed that mostly left me feeling blank. I never understood why Laxmi and Vidhya (Osho’s first administrators) ever recruited Indian labour to do so-called rough jobs in Poona One. It always felt like less of a commune to me. Now that is much worse. Indians do the washing up, clean the toilets, and a whole army of builder’s labourers are engaged in building the New Buddha Hall, which stretches almost as far as the Blue Diamond Hotel. Commune, my foot! It would seem a simple matter to create kibbutz type volunteer terms – sensibly open terms, and those who search a commune in which to work and have one’s being, might really still find it here. It happened in Poona One and on the Ranch (and happens still, in small numbers), but in a confused, covert way in which those who “conform” often get the food passes. Without some reform of this type, the word ‘commune’ is meaningless. Some say well less than 100 people actually run the ashram at present. Paradox, normal organisational sense does not apply here – and never did – and ‘they’ say that’s the way he meant it to be!
There’s now a beautiful seven acre public garden east of the ashram, the Nulla Garden, built on Hollywood money by the ashram in the early 90’s. I loved it. I never saw a sannyasin working in it only Indians, and only rarely any sannyasin just “being” in it. Such a waste – and talking of waste, not a single composting area. Composting would really give an example of a sustainable sub-tropical garden – but no, not neat enough. (Osho himself loved gardening and did his own garden in Jalwalpur.) There’s also an Ashram organic farm where a percentage of the food is grown. It is run by Indians, I was told and not very interesting – what a wasted opportunity for commune involvement. Paradox, “the riches of enlightenment” are greater than any commune. Osho’s words to Savita, (Osho’s number two in the Ranch period), that prefigured her “betrayal”. Was Osho really about a commune anyway, perhaps not.?
One unchange I liked! Twenty five years ago I used to smoke beedies in the so-called smoking temple, till my lungs were on fire, and just enjoy the unpretentious energy. (Sometimes in the ashram proper, like now, it can be a little pretentious and precious.) I don’t smoke anything now, but it was great just to sit there not smoking, unjudged, unnoticed even, sometimes spoken too, sometimes speaking, like you would behave in a plain English bar.
The Other Poona
Within a few miles of the Poona Ashram it is now said that seven or eight sannyasins give satsang in their own right – so anyone into this type of thing can have a right old time of it. Some would say it now makes the whole Poona experience more rich and broad, some that it dilutes the Ashram energy! Perhaps the most “famous” is Kiran, an old Indian sannyasin of Osho who lives near Poona in the Bubaneshwar forest. (His phone number in India is 91-20-4263842. No web-site or e-mail as yet.)
I “sat” with John de Ruiter (not a sannyasin but someone who seems to appeal to sannyasins and comes to Poona annually) with about 100 others on the river bank for a few nights. It felt quite biblical and on occasion “awesomely” still! I used to sometimes get on my bicycle and go to the Ashram to eat afterwards – I personally never felt the two were in conflict. Similarly with Maitreya, who is an English sannyasin with whom I also sat. However the Ashram authorities disagree, and it seems that Maitreya has now been banned from India and he suspects that the Ashram have pulled the strings. I actually witnessed Maitreya on several occasions urge seekers to “go and do groups at the Ashram” because they were not ready, as it were, for ‘his’ group. I can hardly see how the ashram could experience this as competition. (Web-site addresses, etc can be found on our links page for these people, or if you are in Poona for a longer time, also try Madhukar Thompson (author of “Teachings on Route to Freedom” amongst many others). He is a sannyasin who lived in Poona during Poona One and Two and on the Ranch and who currently lives in Poona, and knows the whole scene. You can find his books very readily available throughout Koregaon Park bookshops, but not the Ashram! You can also e-mail him on neti-neti@yahoo.com.
Another group of old-time sannyasins are trying to create what they call a real commune, just 30 kms from Poona – called the mystic village. Growing their own vegetables organically and seemingly in love with India as well as Osho’s energy. The reports felt real to me. (Directions on how to get there from Norwegian Mangala, her e-mail address – signature@ip.eth.net.)
Last Day
On my last day I remember three blind Indian men, holding the arms of each other, white sticks bobbing, walking cowed, across the, now very busy, Bund Garden Road, and my eyes fill, as they used to 25 years before, with tears. I am after all still in India, a land of enormous deprivation and human tragedy, and then…
I visit an old friend. He says if they (the Ashram Authorities) move the location of Buddha Hall (as is threatened in the new building developments) 300 of the old-timers who still live in Poona, will sit in, e-mail all other oldtimers to come, and stay there and meditate until they desist…
I stay up very late. India is often very, very quiet between twelve and four in the morning. I walk a deserted road near the Ashram, a sannyasin approaches from a long way off, a fellow seeker, a fellow lover, marooned also in the night, she smiles that Mona Lisa smile without speaking. And we both know a moment of mystical intimacy, beyond all words and all dispute. It is enough, the Buddhafield lingers still.
Alok John,
Your posted quote is interesting.
Main subject seems to be about others lack of will to seek truth, and ends with a mega the Devil makes ‘em do it.
The blame contagion… is also not a willingness to find truth.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJB-4XGBG5S-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1132496851&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=8463b5072282f5412fc83032842c6968
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/091120_blame.htm
Shantam, once Prem Bubbie the bully aka CIA agent and anti sannyas warrior comes back, we will be sure answer him and warn others!
Anand
you have the right to have your differences and arguments with Prem Bubbie , but that doesn’t mean you have to gobble up the CIA nonsense concocted by oshobob who seems to have a fertile immagination when it comes to inventing conspiracy theories that don’t make any sens and sees CIA agents on every street corner .
I think Prem Bubbie as a Ranch time sannyasin makes a valuable contribution to this forum albeit with his own style which , I can understand , is bound to upset a few .
having said that , don’t get the idea that I have anything against you ; I value your contribution just as much .
Alok John.. With due respect to your post
The TRUTH enlightened ones talk about is different from the word TRUE / TRUTH we use.. Often i see these two meanings get mixed up when a materialist and spiritualist come face to face
The spiritual TRUTH is ultimate truth of eternal nature of being and other TRUTH is more relative facts one comes across
Similar problem comes with the word ‘ reality’ also.
Prem Bubbie does not post out of bitterness against Osho or meditation or celebration.. But he is more bitter against the collective failures of sannyasins to bring about positive changes
Kranti says:
“Prem Bubbie does not post out of bitterness against Osho or meditation or celebration.. But he is more bitter against the collective failures of sannyasins to bring about positive changes”
That’s true, Mr. K, that’s why I hinted at the end of my post calling him a government agent, that he could acually be an agent for Osho himself — a point Anagara seems to have somehow conveniently overlooked.
Keep in mind also my thesis that early Osho sannyasins and the government agents embedded into that system by defiintion must have very siimilar personality profiles.
And too…
anything is possible at sannyasnews. We may need to call in the Authority to sort it all out.
Kranti,
As sugar coatings go… that one is pretty thick.
>But he is more bitter against the collective failures of sannyasins to bring about positive changes
Who is this fellow Anand?!!
Here he seems to have the transcipts at the bottom of a string which refute, if authentic, all the PR stuff around Osho’s mortality.
Of course they may be a clever invention. But if they are real then he needs to at least give a clue as to how he came upon them and their provenance.
Sannyasnews, it is very important to ask the source of the transcripts.
In the ashram it was mentioned many times something like, ” Osho has left with us a complete blue print of His work for many years to come.
In this way vested interests will have the field day for years to come.
One can add few sentences here and there, to give a authentic look.
Let me try one, fiting with the present situation.
Geet, don’t whisper, just do.
Anando, note it. The symbol Om appears only at the time of death.
_________________________________________________
Geet, be very careful. That symbol is constantly there before my eyes. “Om”.
ANANDO REMIND MY PEOPLE WHEN I AM GONE TO THE OTHE SHORE, NO NEED OF ANY SPEICAL DAYS TO CELEBRATE. MEDITATE AND CELEBRTAE EVERYDAY.
___________________________________________
Dear Sannyasnews…
How long does a post “waiting for moderation” wait before it is moderated?
Would it be better to post long quotes from web articles… or post the links to the web pages?
-g
I got introduced to osho from my wife, then I became a avid reader and listener of his works, I use to think that I missed a great man in my life.. but.. he still remains there in his words, slowly removing each layer of onion which is my mind to reveal the nothingness inside me..
I got introduced to osho from a book my girlfriend gave to me, there started my love for oshos work, slowly slowly the onion skins of my mind is getting peeled now with his words. Thank you MASTER
Garimo.. It is not sugar coating.. I have exchanged mails with Prem Bubbie and i understand he is in love with Osho..But he seem to have has no hope in sannyasins in general..unlike Andreas who seemed to have lost hope in Osho himself.. ( Sorry Andreas.. If that is a wrong judgement )
Thanks Oshobob.. I will keep that in mind.. You are a walking Oshopedia
Venkat??
Sounds south indian name. Is Mr. Venkat, one of your friend Kranti?
sannyas news: thanks. I need some extra time to analyze and discuss these notes. There are many. I will connect with you again in spring about this issue.
You made me aware of something there, which I was not aware of myself until now. I am leaving for India next week, so I will not be able to do the research before March.
Venkat has posted two messages.. with some contradictions.. Not sure what he wanted to communicate
Shantam Prem
Yes. Venkat is a south Indian name.. Incidentally that is my legal name also.. Before people get confused i want to clarify upfront that the Venkat who posted above mesages is not me..I stay as Kranti
Just to clarify again Venkat is normally a short form of a longer name ..In my case it is Venkatesh but normally addressed by people as Venkat
When i deal with foriegn clients very interesting ways used to crop up in how people call me.. It depends on their langaue. People from Asian countries like used to call me Venka as it sounds easier for them . Some people used to almost split my name as Venka tesh
Wanted to go for a name change through Gazette..But stopped short due to the pains involved.. You never know what you had to go thru especially in a country like India.. In that sense i am jealous of some old sannyasins who have four or five names..
Garimo, I don’t think the author means “The Devil makes em lie.” He just means that a society in which there is a great lack of such will to seek truth deserves to be called satanic. In my opinion you see this a lot in New Age movements, also the Humaniversity.
Alok John,
I’m not clear if you’re thinking new age movements and humaniversity are labeling others as satanic or deserve to be called satanic.
But there’s a lot of satanic name calling going on these days… I’m thinking it ’s a creepy religious blame game designed to manipulate others regardless of who’s doing it.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/signs_of_satan.htm
Okay, I won’t use the word satanic then.
But I would say both the Humaniversity and New Age movements don’t have a high regard for truth.
>But I would say both the Humaniversity and New Age movements don’t have a high regard for truth
Okay… you must be feeling some disappointment that not everyone shares the same values as you.
Alok John,
Can you share one name from old movements or new age, where high regard of truth is maintained in the long run.
Remember one story from Osho´s early discourses in Hindi.
“in my dream i saw a big religious carnival on the way. Excitement was in the atmosphere. Jesus with his thousands of followers, waving hands and blessing people. Same was with Buddha, Krishna and others. Miles long festivity.
Few minutes after the whole carnival has passed, I saw a lonely old man coming with his broken stick. i asked this lost man, which group he belongs too, i can take him to his people.
Old man smilingly said,” I am in no group but they all work in my name.”
I became puzzeled,” They work for you. What do you mean. Are you God?”
“Yes,” replied the lonely old man.
I woke up from this dream and made the pledge, ” I will walk only behind this old man.”
Beautiful post Shantam.. Thats real celebration
Dear Meera.. The following is for you
Celebration on special days has nothing to do with what Osho meant as celebration
” True celebration should come from your life, in your life. And true celebration cannot be according to the calendar, that on the first of November you will celebrate. Strange, the whole year you are miserable and on the first of November suddenly you come out of misery, dancing. Either the misery was false or the first of November is false; both cannot be true. And once the first of November is gone, you are back in your dark hole, everybody in his misery, everybody in his anxiety.
Life should be a continuous celebration, a festival of lights the whole year round. Only then you can grow up, you can blossom. Transform small things into celebration.”
“Your life becomes a vital celebration, your relationship becomes a festive thing; whatsoever you do, every moment is a festival. You eat, and eating becomes a celebration; you take a bath, and bathing becomes a celebration; you talk, and talking becomes a celebration; relationship becomes a celebration. Your outer life becomes festive, there is no sadness in it. How can sadness exist with silence? But ordinarily you think otherwise: you think if you are silent you will be sad. Ordinarily you think how you can avoid sadness if you are silent. I tell you, the silence that exists with sadness cannot be true. Something has gone wrong. You have missed the path, you are off the track. Only celebration can give proof that the real silence has happened.”
“Anand” says:
“sannyas news: thanks. I need some extra time to analyze and discuss these notes. There are many. I will connect with you again in spring about this issue.
You made me aware of something there, which I was not aware of myself until now. I am leaving for India next week, so I will not be able to do the research before March.”
We are not so happy with this reply Anand, though we appreciate your earlier contributions, if authentic. .
It seems to us a simple matter to let people know the provenance of your three posts. They are very significant, IF AUTHENTIC, but leave those who want the “Tooth Truth” in the open, no further advanced, if we cannot authenticate them.
I understand ’sannyasnews’. I am not sure, why you think that these notes are so important. But I am not making them up and in my opinion they are absolutely authentic.
But let me do some more research on them and unfortunately I am very busy right now, so it will take a bit of time.
Anand.. Let me know when you are there in Pune.. Can you send me your mail ID?
Anand, if these dental notes are AUTHENTIC and can be proved to be, then they totally disprove the public relation dept account of Osho’s intake of nitrous oxide, and show he was taking it very close to his death.
Osho may have died of multiple causes, but ti would be hard to discount the laughing gas as at least one cause. The “official” account is that Osho’s intake of nitrous oxide was limited to Pune one and the Ranch, and it was a limited use.
So you must see the significance, and also in a way what you are sitting on.
These notes are of course authentic, but I personally do not care, if some people think they are not. I still had not enough time to study them all in depth after your information. But they are coming from dental sessions and we all know about the teeth problems Osho had before his death.
Now you put me a bit in a bind and I think the best is really to wait a bit until I have talked to some people how to proceed. I also have them for a certain purpose. After my return from india I will know better. I will do my best to deal with this in the best way for all.
i think the transcripts could be important.
for example,if someone wanted to “de-construct” the religion,and pull it out of the hands of the non-stop-quote-tossing-hard-core-quazi-hindu-he`s-the-bhagdaddy-style would-be hagiographers….
l i would say that far more effective than taking down pictures of a “dead guy with a beard”,
much better to have that dead guy with a beard shown as the irreducible rascal he really was…
he liked a good puff of a morning now and then,and along with playing one massive practical joke on “renunciation”,the linchpin of all so-called religion….
famously “provoked god”,and just about everyone else`s “ego” who came into contact with him…..
and even went on to contrive such a prank as leaving his tripping paraphernalia bang next door around his holiest of holies–his “samadhi” for his saintly followers to walk past everyday.
i am not a literal thinking man by temperament,but well,
“rascal saint”
that does it for me.
hello,
i am an ex sannyasin. Osho has been a great inspiration for me for more than 20 years and i also saw this man as the master of masters, the most beautiful man ever walking on this planet etc etc..
Now i know it was just a human being with good and bad charactaristics and to see him as a kind of holy man is just a spiritual inmature position. We are all enlightened and to see others as enlightened and ourselves as unenlightened is just bogus if we realise this or not. Under every namaste (folded hands) there is a middle finger waiting… to put others higher than yourself is criminal and disrespecful and an escape mechanism. In my opinion Osho was an enlightened junkie who was addicted to all kind of drugs like valium and that may be the reason for his death.. I wonder why so many people like to hold on to this image of Osho as a holy man..a perfect role model..isn´t it time to grow up and share our enlightened state with eachother as friends???
Love,
Quin
Quin, I understand your are an ex=sannyasins and you still need to rationalize
your state of being. If you are so enlightened, why are you visiting here?
In my opinion Osho is a spiritual awakened master and his love and teachings continue beyond his death.
But it might be more easy to declare yourself enlightened, declare Osho a fake and continue to live in a state of delusion. I feel sorry for you.
More delightful responses from the great MASTER douche bag, Anand!!!
Quin, You sound more like confused than a total idiot. I don’t know what in the world you were doing during your long disciplehood. But, it looks Osho was certainly working on you during those times. A statement such as “we all are enlightened..” from a person like ‘you’ is enough a proof. Recognize it and feel grateful..
If we are all enlightened then why do we need the guidance of the another enlightened master? Infact why do we call someone a master?
There certainly is a difference between us and Osho..We are enlightened only in potential not in actuality.. Isnt that what Osho tells us ?
If someone is enlighetned and they are in complete bliss all the time why do they need trivial things like drugs and chemicals to relax them.. I personally dont buy these theories that Osho took this or that etc.. Atkeast it can not be for relaxation..It might have been for handling physical pain..
It seems sometimes our ego hurts there is someone superior than us.. But we also see that it is true .. We also cant understand why Osho did certain things which didnt fit within our idea of enlightenment image.. The only way we can rationalize / heal the ego is by reducing Osho to ‘ normal human being with good and bad traits ‘ etc etc
Why cant we understand that at the level of duality / world , limitaitions enter and what Osho or a Buddha does at that level can go wrong… showing him as ordinary man.. Why should we judge someone on the basis of what they DO as doing is subject to limitations.
Quin Quin Quin,
it is your turn Swami to deliver the second punch. The entry punch was quite spectacular.
It even brought one more reader into action. i really felt touched when clicking on Teeertha´s name, his web site got opened and breeze of Osho energy came out.
Hi,
Seek equality with your master..that´s all..the rest is just bla bla…
By the way, why such aggressive responses? it is really shocking to read..in my memory and in my many years of being in the Osho Commune in Pune i remember my fellow sannyasins as a loving bunch of people…To keep the memory alive this is my final plug in to this website…i am not interested in discussing anything with anybody just felt like sharing where i am right now…ciao!
I am going too fast…Sorry Kranti i have forgotten to answer your response..i feel you to be a very sincere person
I understand that in life we all need teachers,masters role models of any sort to help us, to inspire us to take steps in our evolutionary growth as human beings. For me Osho was such a person in the spiritual realm. So i do not judge in any way him or others for taking a position in this. But i do see that the traditional master/ disciple postioning is already for many seekers in the spiritual world outdated. As you might know the last twenty years the advaita vedanta teachings known as Satsangs have come to a full blossoming. In this meetings teachers (at least the bright ones) shared that we can be our true nature by just being it.(yes just like Osho told us) This is a very simple and clear way to say that even our socalled unenlightened dualistic aspects of our selves are appearing in this…this reality that we are it…this and that..
Now i see this whole Satsang movement (which seems to be over its peak nowadays) as the beginning of a new time.. a time where we all can share our (i know the word is totally polluted) enlightenment with eachother as friends.. as equals. We are coming from the light..this is our essence..we are made of stardust poetically speaking..yes we are made of emptiness.. we are here not to chase our own tails like doggies do but actually to declare our godliness and inspire eachother to take that lion seat..so your master can become your friend..equals yes..grateful yes..why should we say ..hey man i still do all this dualistic things and declare we are not whole yet? why don´t we change perspective because dorment..sleeping or not…we are it.. we are light..what a joy to share this…love! ps i personally don´t care if Osho was a druggie or not and what terrible things he might have done..He was and is still a great inspiration source to many and that is important..The final not agressive punch is..Hey let them all prove you are not enlightened..and say to you you still need to transform this and that stop desiring women or man..stop smoking..stop being identified and the rest of it..let them say to you all of these stupid reasons that you are not enlightened..and declare yourselve as enlightened and be that selfdeclared enlightened idiot…because we are crazy but it is fun.
SOMETIMES IF A WRONG QUESTION IS ASKED, THEN THE GREATEST PARADOX THAT HAPPENS IS AN INCESSANT TERRAIN OF ANSWERS GIVEN.
THIS IS AN IRRELEVANT QUESTION FOR ME.
IT CAN BE SEEN ON TWO LEVEL:
THE WORLD OF SAMSAR
THE WORLD OF SANYAS
THIS QUESTION IS NOT TO BE CONCEIVED FROM THE REALM OF THE WORLD WE LIVE IN…SO THE FIRST LEVEL AUTOMATICALLY DISSOLVES…OTHERWISE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE DISRUPTED, DISMANTLLED AND GIVING A WAY TO ABSOLUTE DIGRESSIONS
THE OUESTION IS ACTUALLY: DO WE REALLY WANT THE REAL, CONCRETE AND TANGIBLE ANSWERS WHICH CAN TRANSFORM OUR WHOLE LIFE…IF YES THEN THERE IS RELEVANCE OF THIS QUESTION…
MY AIM IS TO DESCRIBE THAT THE QUESTION IS VERY MUCH RELEVANT FOR A SANYASIN…BECAUSE OSHO HAS NEVER DIED…
THERE IS NO WAY FOR HIM TO DIE…
I AM SAYING THESE THINGS NOT JUST METAPHYSICALLY
BUT ON EXPERIENCE LEVEL..
OSHO IS IS AND ONLY HE IS…
NOTHING IS HERE EXCEPTY HIM…
AND HIS PRESENCE CAN’T BE KNOWN THROUGH THESE RATIONAL QUESTIONS…
AND REMEMBER THERE IS NO IMPEDEMENT FROM OUR MASTER
BUT FROM OURSELVES…AND THESE QUESTIONS ARE GOING TO GIVE NO RESOLUTION…
ONLY THE ULTIAMTE LOVE AFFAIR WILL REVEAL…
AND THEN THERE ARE NO SUCH STUPID QUESTONS…
BECAUSE THE ONE KNOWS THERE IS NOTHING BUT HIM
OSHO OSHO OSHO
Perhaps all questions are wrong questions. Osho used to argue this sometimes!
But by the same token all questions have an equal validity. Many ask this question above in private over the years, and sannyasnews just wants to blow that type of secrecy away. Osho clearly left time bombs for his PR machine to become confounded in, and one is sure this was his intention. That space age presentation of the dental chair as one hits the samdahi is a sure point in case, as was his insistence on publishing the “dental” books.
Devotees, beware of devotion, sceptics beware of the disease of Descartes. You will only meet Osho in the middle.
Each to his or her own. Laughing gas always left me with a terrible headache….but it was fun.
Check out this quote from ‘Mind Bomb’.
The sage had died in the milieu in which he’d become accustomed to living. During the last thirty years of his life he had been constantly surrounded by controversy, levelled by adversaries and buffered by the ceaseless love of his devotees. The current debate was centred on the cause of his death. Was he, as the guru claimed, a victim of thallium poisoning, a highly toxic chemical element slipped to him by employees of the U.S. Government, a plot hatched and implemented in 1985 when he was arrested and detained within the shadowy confines of the American Penal System? Or had he, as others claimed, succumbed to the combined effects of a chronic neurological disease and an alleged addiction to prescription tranquillizers coupled with massive inhalations of nitrous oxide, or laughing gas as it is more commonly known?
Standing by the funeral pyre, neither of those two arguments coloured Angus’s perception of this anarchistic, Zen-like Master’s sudden departure from the earthly plane. He was certain that the world had just lost a crazy diamond from its crown of creation.
I’m sure of that also!
What matters, to us now, for this moment? Let the master point the finger — look at yourself and nothing between him and your essence. Respect!
From: The Perfect Way, Number 3
“Looking at life from the standpoint of self-ignorance is samsara, the world.
Looking at life from the standpoint of self-knowing is sannyas.
….
With this knowing,
– the ignorance and
– attachment
inside us drops away. The world was outside and it will still continue to be there, but inside us there will be the absence of attachment to it. In other words, there will be no world, no samsara inside us.”
master rajneesh chandra mohan’s death was a murder and ot wasnt by usa government …they only weakened his body ….but they were unable to destroy him completely….. there was a judas with him….he was murdered by the people whom he thought as his own ……… i cant actually give you people proff about this but this is the thing which happened …he was murdered by his own people.
Any one want to explore more and know more truth and wanted to knwo why he never met master jiddu krishnamurti and why even master jiddu never met master rajneesh chandramohan is welcome..but not for discussion….logic has limits and and words are too limited to describe experience…….so who ever is ready to take plunge in sadhana’s( meditation in english) and wants to learn and experience truth through his/her own efforts about whole consiousness and flow and so to learn the lives and death of two gr8 masters of this century..their targets why they failed ..what utopia they could have created …anyoen ready to do this …….can contact me via email..i wont discuss anything …wont answer any questions……..wont meet anyoen personally ….. no phone calls…just email is my contact…… just follow techniques i will tell you and you will know it on your own ….then you decide what is what on your own not cause some one said somethign or wrote somethign……this is pure logical absurd discussion……want to know..contact dont want to know …its your choice…….. consiousness( god/mother nature/energy flow whatever you call it it is same) never gives help to anyone it just gives you chances and choices ….its your turn to make decisions
my email is anniruddha.aaryan@gmail.com