My Love of Osho
Celebration is my Message. Kranti speaks
Below is my understanding, and an expression of love for Osho. It is not for addressing any issue or ongoing conflicts…
To me , In essence Osho is about Celebration.. The core of His teaching lay in ‘ Celebration of Life ‘
To celebrate life there need to be acceptance and gratitude which comes out of meditation, awareness and understanding. This we gain by doing the meditations He gave, and listening to His beautiful & powerful discourses..
What else is Osho ? In spite of 1000s hours he spent talking to His people , the core of what He communicated is this ‘ Celebration of Life ‘.. the Rest is addressing individual questions according to the context and questioner… to me Adding more to Osho is insulting him… the very idea of adding more to Osho is a projection. I love Osho and I am so grateful to him that my heart is not allowing me to add / color Osho with what I want ..
Buddha’s essential teaching is mindfulness and realization of ‘ No self ‘. Adding anything more to Buddha is an insult.. But that is what happened.
From the issue of Why he gave a flower to Mahakashyap to what is his opinion on Non-Vegetarian food, to why he contradicted himself on the question of God… Those are things said /done in a specific context and addressed to a specific person… it is not the essence of his teaching.
So we have so many types of Buddhism / concepts around Buddha who did not even allow a single concept.. Every layer of onion was peeled and peeled and nothingness was given only to see so many concepts developing around him… there is a large religion around him now ..
So I asked myself , is the same happening to Osho ? My heart says ‘ NO ‘ as Osho did enough to stop a religion developing around Him… but how can I be sure … if it can happen to Buddha it can happen to Osho. But one advantage Osho has is whatever He said is recorded and at least people cannot add anything directly, although interpretations can always happen. Only life and time can tell …
In the preface to the book, “The Great Pilgrimage – From here to here”, Devageet puts it beautifully. “When people asked Osho questions irrespective of what the subject of that question was, the questioner always became the subject.. Osho’s answer was always on target.. he never missed..” Such a beautiful seeing.
Individually I do listen to Osho and see whether the question and answer he gave to someone applies to me also.. I do it all the time.. A question which is not at all relevant to me may or may not become relevant later.. Years later… I never know.
Similarly there cannot be a specific place where I can go and celebrate , be aware and come back to forget all about it… It has to happen right where I am… right where I live… but any place / structure which is facilitating / providing space for me to experiment with my Inner self using the meditations developed by Osho , where I can listen to Osho , Where I can free my energy by dancing is helpful because what I learned then can be carried into my daily life.
Accepting that Osho is all about ‘ Celebration of Life’ is NOT an interpretation of Osho or His vision or simplification of Osho.. Because that’s what Osho is ..Because Osho is simple. He was not complex. It is like saying a Rose Flower is beautiful . It is not an interpretation.. that is what a Rose flower is . a simple and beautiful presence.
I see Osho , wherever there is a beautiful flower , where I see a child’s laughter , wherever people are hugging and kissing each other lovingly , wherever there is Music , Wherever there is Dance , whenever someone cries deeply , whenever someone is sad , wherever superstition is questioned , wherever the past is thrown out of the window , wherever there is dew drop slipping , wherever I see someone chasing a butterfly, wherever I see gratitude , wherever I see intelligence , wherever someone choosing life instead of success.
Please share with me all the beautiful things expressed by Osho . Here is one:
“I am in tremendous love with life, hence I teach celebration. Everything has to be celebrated, everything has to be lived, loved. To me nothing is mundane and nothing is sacred. To me all is sacred, from the lowest rung of the ladder to the highest rung. It is the same ladder: from the body to the soul, from the physical to the spiritual, from sex to samadhi- everything is divine!
Celebration is the foundation of my sannyas- not renunciation but rejoicing; rejoicing in all the beauties, all the joys, all that life offers, because this whole life is a gift of God.
With Tears and Gratitude to Osho
Kranti
Beautifully expressed.
These are also Tears of Mystic Rose!
I agree beautiful… better than the Bozzo…. kranti get it translated to many languages. i´ll kiss your feet with pleasure.
Thanks for sharing Kranti…which reminds me:
Respect yourself. Respect others. Hold your head high, walk the path of freedom. Be yourself, be watchful, and nothing can effect you. The joy of life is always with you.
And you may have a dog that won’t sit up, roll over or even cook breakfast, not because she’s too stupid to learn how but because she’s too smart to bother.
Peace
Well said Kranti,
I am amazed, because now that I look at it, before I met Osho, I had never heard anything about celebrating life. No one had told me, I had never seen people celebrating. So now that you brought it up, I am grateful, perhaps I may have never learned anything about celebration without Osho.
Love
growth has many dimensions, thanks for sharing kranti
yea great post!!
With tears in my eyes, in the name of Osho, I salute you Kranti, for your real picturesque view, imagening the Master is listening in His utter silence - nothingness as hollow bamboo - sitting in Budhha Hall but in my heart, posted in this new Thread. Love……
Kranti
I always see Swami Rajneesh dancing and celebrating Osho everyday at all his camps
and says that dance and celebration is the way to bring Osho back into your heart and the only way to express your gratitude to Osho and to existence
Just see the thousands of images of people dancing and celebrating everyday at his camps and you will see pure love and ecstacy in their eyes
Yes celebration and gratitude is the real message
and Rajneesh is living Osho’s message
Dhyan Anurag
My God Anurag, why for a minute you are not willing to look at Osho straight, without any middle man.
Or is it like a child, who while taking bath with the father thought, ” Look me and daddy have something special between the legs and nobody else.!”
Also Kranti
Where is the celebration at the Poona Resort
where thousands newcomers visit to see Osho’s celebrating vision in reality ??
All celebrations are banned at the Resort
which is the reality we live in
So address this ” real issue ” and you will understand that there is no gound reality in the Resort
Dhyan Anurag
Dear Shantam
This point was just for Kranti who always attacks Rajneesh as Kranti is a hypocrite just shedding tears for the public and supporting
the Resort No Celebrations Rules
Infact Rajneesh book Tears of the Mystic Rose title was his love and gratitude towards Osho and those Tears of joy and grattude he offered to his Master
I have read many threads where Rajneesh has been attacked vicously from all without any reasons
Now we have this Shanti outbursts in every line
so i am maintaing the balance so to speak
Dhyan Anurag
I am sitting in office..But tears flowing down..honestly …cant see the keyboard clearly.. I love Osho sannaysins wherever they are.. They are different versions of Osho himself.. Osho’s people are real people.. This is not to mean others are not beautiful..Just a Way of seeing
Swami Anurag..A year or so back when i read the mystic rose book of Sw rajnessh i felt love for him..I even thought let me go and be with him as I missed Osho in my life.. there were deep moments in my life where i wanted to be with someone who personifies Osho..
Thats why whenever i am sitting in Buudha Grove or any part of PUNE resort i dont miss anything in life.. there is a deep fulfillment.. Slowly i am realizing i need to carry that silence and fulfilment wherever i am .. Otherwise it looks incomplete.. Nowdays i can feel the silence and see Osho’s presense in so many ways.. I also understand that is possible because Osho has touched every aspect of my life..he has spoken , covered and penetrated every possible thing i can do and i just cant help remembering him in every life situation.. I am helpless.
My understanding of Osho when he says celebration is it is not festivity or dancing alone.. It is in the acceptance of life and being centered in silence
I am going through very hard times in life.. Sharing all these in sannyasnews has been great help for me.. Even sharing a simple post in sannyasnews with a fellow sannyasin gives me the same happiness which i can have in dancing with him/her in Buddha grove..
Have problems in every aspect of life..But whatever Osho gave me is being put to test thouroughly.. I am able to see the gift of life..
Love to you all
Wish i can hold all of your hands sitting in Buddha hall now..
Sharing a thread
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_Masters/Osho/osho_new_man.htm
Anurag, Kranti or shantam, shanti etc…
We the unknown sannyasins from around the world are the heart and soul of Osho’s life.
He has called us all, His people.
We are His messengers and the message.
Nobody has the right and duty to come in between, otherwise we will have the army of priests and politicians.
When majority of His sannyasins want to celebrate His birthday and other celebrations started by Him, NOBODY; NO Dick has the right to stop them abruptly…
Those who have castrated the spirit of celebration and implanted their version, will be KICKED OUT, it is just a matter of time.
on the other side, We His people are celebrating on our own, our tears and laughter, our success and failure…. Life has become a play.. some time tragic some time comedy….
With this comes a in born response that we should not allow the people who are pulling the strings from behind or from front.
When this whole cosmos is surviving without GOD, why the fuck ashram cannot survive without Amrito or rajneesh!
And if cannot,,,,,than dears ones God died after creating the universe, and Osho died after few thousand sermons!
Rest is human business. no mystery, just a game of credit and debt, products and customers.
And this too, we can celebrate…
after all, we the ordinary sannyasins are not so thankless to our master!
God bless all those, who feel again to sit in Buddha hall and dance and sing..and yes..look for Miss and Mr. Right.
“Yes celebration and gratitude is the real message
and Rajneesh is living Osho’s message”
I cannot say that Rajneesh is living Osho’s message. All that I can say is that Rajneesh is living HIS understanding of Osho’s message. How can he (not him particularly, but in general) understand Osho’s message? To do that you need to be enlightened, and when a person is enlightened, it is no more Osho’s message, it is on his own authority. So let us not say “The buddha said”, rather, let us say “I have heard the buddha say” or even better “my understanding of what the buddha said is that…”. But let us not say that so and so is living Osho’s message because that is not for us to decide. All that we or anyone can say is that they are living their understanding of Osho’s message and not the message itself…just their understanding of the message. (which may be wrong. So to assert that they are right would be exceeding the limits. It would be arrogance. Because how can you say whether your understanding is right or wrong? All that you (and me) can say is that this is my understanding of osho’s message, but it is NOT the message itself. Because to understand Osho’s message we need to come to the same point to which Osho came. (which by the way is not “hard”, people have a tendency to turn the master into a God (which he may be. lol.) and make it seem as if it is impossible to reach to that point. So it is okay to worship him, but please do not think about becoming him. (of course, your own unique perfection, with your own distinct individuality and expression.) Oftentimes the tendency is to say that it is okay to talk about enlightenment, but please do not become enlightened otherwise our egos will be hurt and we will not be able to tolerate it. You, enlightened? Someone who is alive just like me? flesh and bones? A contemporary? How can my ego accept that a contemporary is enlightened? Otherwise what have I been doing here?)
I believe that this needs to be posted again:
“When this whole cosmos is surviving without GOD, why the fuck ashram cannot survive without Amrito or rajneesh!
And if cannot,,,,,than dears ones God died after creating the universe, and Osho died after few thousand sermons!”
“And this too, we can celebrate…
after all, we the ordinary sannyasins are not so thankless to our master!
God bless all those, who feel again to sit in Buddha hall and dance and sing..and yes..look for Miss and Mr. Right.”
I wonder how the tibetan monks would receive osho’s jokes, his outrageous style and his acceptance of sex? Either they will call him the devil, or they will be able to understand that he is bring the new yoga for the new age! (what does Osho say? that is just far out baby!)
I put the above points, bearing in mind the context of “Celebration” where Kranti made his “I see Osho” comments.
At the heart of this is how to view/cope with/understand suffering.
Some, including myself, would say that “celebration”, with its connotations of greater or lesser degrees of “self-indulgence”, is out of synch with the examples of suffering I’ve given above.
And that such a response is rather shallow, to say the least.
But perhaps it’s merely a question of words:
Substitute ‘compassion’ for celebration in these contexts and it fits much better.
Satya Deva.. What I meant is deep moments ..natural expression of crying and sadness..Osho always says crying us beautiful …sadness has a depth..and you come out of that fresh.. I didnt mean crying and sadness without awareness ..I didnt mean a emotional drama here.. Since we all are sannyaisns and we had come across Osho saying these i did nt eloborate
One more link on Celebration by Osho
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Jokes/osho_on_celebration.htm
satya Deva
Just to add often people cry or become sad only as a emotional dram and for the purpose deriving an idenity out of it.. have seen people always being unhappy to earn pity from others..
But once i started understanding Osho i saw these emotional games in me and others.. then at some point when tears or sadness came i allowed it or sometimes i didnt ..But there was no need to use that for idenity purpose or gaining some one’s attention..
Think tahst what Osho says ..Let me know whether there is another way of seeing it..
Celebration need to be spontaneous like this.. ( Oshobob will like this )
A young couple have been trying for ages to have a baby, but with no success. Finally they decided to go to the doctor with the problem. After a detailed interview he suggests that maybe they should not make love every day, to avoid love becoming a routine. They should make love only spontaneously. Not as if they have to do it, but only when they are possessed by it.
“You have to find the right, spontaneous moment,” the doctor says, “when you feel the moment is right, do it.” A few months later, sure enough, the woman is back and the doctor confirms her pregnancy. “May I enquire if my advice was of any help?” “Oh, doc,” she says, “it was terrific. We were having a romantic candlelight dinner with french wine and soft music, and suddenly our hands met. We were looking deep into each others eyes and we both knew, `this is it!’ We simply threw off the tablecloth and made love right on the table.”
“Amazing,” says the doctor. “Yes, it was great,” she says, “the only sad thing about it is, that we can never go to that restaurant again.”
Source: from Osho Book “The Razor’s Edge”
Kranti I respect what you have said about your personal circumstance and your personal view of what Osho means to you. It is just that this “to me” can easily slide down the slippery slope and end the way it seemed to in your article: you ended up saying it is not your interpretation that celebration is the core of Osho, it is just the simple truth of the sacred flower. This is where danger lurks. We start of with the clear understanding that it is “to me”, and then end up saying that it is “from Osho”.
In a later post you say that your understanding of celebration is much more then “festivity or dancing alone.. It is in the acceptance of life and being centered in silence”
Here you come back to “to me”. The trouble is that you then take this core single aspect of celebration and introduce “being centered” and “silence”. This is also to be respected in the same way you expressed your first viewpoint about what Osho means for you. However as you did in your first article it is entirely possible that you will extend this “to me” to “from Osho”.
This “to me” changing subtly from subjective personal understanding to generalised objective truth is the psychological pattern that Osho sannyasins have repeated to create the idealized extremes that create tension and argument. Of course for a lot of people this slide is done without intention and without realizing it: unconsciously.
This is where Jayesh and Amrito are as well. If you read Jayesh or Amrito, they are very clear about the fact that what they are doing is coming “from Osho”. However it can only be “to me”. Of course if Jayesh or Amrito want to claim enlightenment and start teaching, they are free to do so. If they do, the thing to remember is that then it is “from me” not “from Osho”. With Osho the only possible position to hold with any level of credibility and intelligence is “to me Osho means….”
Yahoo
Abhay
Sw Dyam Anurahg
I missed this post of yours..So i am replying again..
You said ” ..Kranti is a hypocrite just shedding tears for the public and supporting the Resort No Celebrations Rules ”
It took 17 years for this hypocrite to even share something in a forum.. So there was no ‘ public ‘ for me.. The only world I knew was Osho..
To me what Osho meant by celebration is not about celebrating birthdays and anniversaries.. His definition of celebration seems to be different .. So resort having few celebrations or not having celebrations is not linked to me talking about Osho way of celebrating life in all aspects
I do understand your point..It will be great to have these celebrations as they are opportunities to get together and dance ..Surely.. But why they stopped celebrations is again can be a big thread..
OR we can share our thoughts on why PUNE do not have specific celebrations.. My understanding is they want everyday to be celebration not waiting for specific days to celebrate.. which is in line with what Osho spoke about
Why they celebrate a new year is something I dont know.. I personally dont celebrate new years also ..
Please share your thoughts on this..
Abhay
I liked the last post of yours.. I do accept that the danger is always there .We can slip easily from ‘ to me ‘ to ‘ Osho meant this ‘.. Infact while drafting that post i did delete quite a few words which tilted towards generalisation
But let us ask ourselves again this together …
What osho meant by celebration.. Please let me know what you think.. I asked the same question to Sw Anurag also..
let us forget the conflicts we had in the last few threads and see whether we can have healthy sharing..
Satya Deva.. It took me few pots to arrive at what you are pointing.. I am sorry for not understanding your point rightly.. thanks for highlighting this sharply ..
So let me express this again
I see Osho where i see someone natural..not artificial or dramatic..
I never meant it to include me seeing Osho at the cost somone else’s misery.. Then it mean being sadistic ..isnt it? No i didnt intent to express something like that ..
So it is a just basic natural aspect of crying & being sad without supression.. I didnt mean anything extreme..
I can not believe anurag is not missing anytime to promote his own guru rajneesh, when does it ever stops.
As far as celebration in the ashram goes.
Everyday at 10:45 is dancing in buddha grove… have you been there?. and there is dancing party every other day. And there is sannyas celebrations once a week. I do not know what you mean when you say there is no celebrations.
I never dance so much in my life as when I am there. and never dance with so much joy and beauty in my heart.
Kranti, thanks for looking into this and responding.
I see what you’re getting at, although I still think it’s a fine line at times!
For example, grief is perfectly natural, it has its place (as long as there’s attachment to the ‘lost’ person or even thing), but I wonder whether you’d still “see Osho” there? It can look pretty “dramatic”, can’t it?!
Likewise anger, which can easily be the shadow of grief…
And which, unless chronic, can also be perfectly “natural” - and extremely “dramatic”!
I guess you’re discriminating between the “natural” and what we might call the “pathological”, including what I think you’ve identified as the ’self-indulgent’.
But I’m a bit uneasy about you ’seeing Osho’ in emotional states, as long as those concerned are practising awareness at the time…
Because that probably kind of excludes most of humanity, doesn’t it, which seems to me far too exclusive, ‘elitist’ even, frankly.
Who are we to so judge others anyway?
Anyway, enough about others, the real ‘test’ is of ourselves for ourselves, isn’t it?
To quote a great song by Ron Sexsmith, ‘Travelling Alone’:
“It’s one on one,
You and your soul…
And nobody else….”
And one more thing (lol!)…
Really just to summarise above:
There’s the simple, natural, spontaneous, healthy on the one hand…With emotion allowed, expressed and contained…(maybe feeling’s a better word?)
And the self-indulgent and/or pathological, on the other…With emotion exaggerated, melodramatic even, and often used to manipulate…Invariably arising from deeply-held unhappiness….
Ok, so maybe sannyasins (and other people in ‘personal growth’/meditation) tend to be more aware of their inner processes than others (although I do wonder about this at times!), but everyone suffers and I think invoking ‘awareness’ as a special criterion for judging these things leaves us in grave danger of becoming rather too ’special’ in our own eyes, rather ‘elitist’.
Rather ‘insufferable’ even!
Sayta Deva
I am greatful to you for putting this in the right perpective.. You have explained a deep insight so effortlessly .. I do agree .There is a thin line
May be if i say i see Osho only in positive aspects of life then some how it feels incomplete.. its not what Osho says about acceptance & celebration.. may be i tried to be complete there and in that process said something which is not deep.. somewhat shallow
Thanks for making me understand..
So the point is seeing Osho in anyone who is natural and in their naturalness and at easeness ,not really in the misery / suffering of people.
by the way I also heard Osho describing anger as beautiful outpour of energy. He quotes Jesus’s anger at money changers..
Infact I do sometimes enjoy the anger of people whom I love as an expression of energy without thinking they should not get angry at me..
Grief is more complex.. I certianly can see Osho when somone is grieving
Just to add
I was listening to another advaita teacher few days earlier where he differentiated between having pain and suffering ..
he was saying while pian is natural , suffering is not..suffering belongs to EGO as it resists pain and consequently suffers apart from its other self created imaginary suffering ..
Thanks again
Correction ” Grief is more complex.. I certianly can NOT see Osho when somone is grieving “
Satya Deva , Shanthi , Abhay , Amitabh , Anurag & Chinmaya
Can i have your facebook Contacts if you have one.. If you are alright with giving it..
Dear Kranti
I read what you are saying and now see another person present when you speak about Osho
I feel your love is real and your concern is real now with these posts of yours
I am also one of those who go to Poona and have not understood why the Resort managment is so controlling and dominating on every aspect of the freedoms of individual sannyasins which again i have to mention Rajneesh brings out
Rajneesh used to say to me that there should be hundreds of thousands of sannyasins dancing and celebrating Osho in every yearly festivals
Rajneesh feels that if the inner circle just withdraws their interference into sannyasins lives then Poona Ashram can be the greatest melting pot for all sannyasins again
Actually you must see that today most new people are coming from Russia. This is mainly due to all these new sannyains that Swami Arun and Swami Rajneesh have brought into sannyas and they all go to Poona
Rajneesh is always saying that Poona Ashram is beautiful to all he meets in Russia. He is only against the mis-use of Osho mandate by the inner circle
Arun and Rajneesh both only give core Osho meditations and do not charge anything at all
And now see the point that Arun and Rajneesh are both banned by the Resort.
So again it is clear that Resort do not want the truth or beautiful sannyasins but only want to dominate and control the whole sannyas movement like the Vatican
If you see with an open hear and clearly without any prejudice like Shanti types then you will see that we need people like Rajneesh and Arun back
We need Keerti and Satya Vedant back again
They are true lovers and devotees of Osho
and we should love and accept them and undertstand what they are tring to convey to us all
Dhyan Anurag
Satyadeva.. I will share something in detail via email. It is a related topic. Please give me your email id.
My email id is -krantidevapatha@gmail.com
And i forgot to add that we want Prem Joshua and Milarepa and Miten and Premal and Harideva and Giten and Dhyanum and alll the banned lovers back
And a new inner circle that is answerable and accountable for all their actions that affect the sannyas movement ” in the spiritual context ” as Rajneesh has clearly pointed to again and again
What is the Mandate given by Osho. And what is Spiritual Considerations and what are Mundane Matters should be debated on
Sorrry again, but i can see Rajneesh to be the clear voice in these matters and unless i can hear other clear voices on this crucial matter, i will have to use his name to make these points clear
I too feel that the Osho Mandate should be discussed and some final solution and decision should be made otherwise it is moving in the direction of Sheela fiasco
Dhyan Anurag
If you have something to share, some truth of your own Anurag, then share it. But bringing Rajneesh every time to back up your words becomes a sort of promotinga catechism propaganda. Like “see my guru is right”.
Dear Kranti,
I really enjoyed your post. I find what you wrote and the way you articulate it profound and beautiful. I hope some day you will write for our Viha Connection magazine.
Love,
Dhanyam
All sannys Friends in this talking
I am slowly read all letter and talkings about Radjneesh Osho Samadhi and Amrito people and all this long discuss
I want to say Radjneesh came to Russia and Many many Russia friends are now take sannys from him and we all love Osho very very much
Radjneesh open my heart and i know all Russian love Radjneesh very very much as he love Osho and only talk about his love to Osho. I know all Russia friends Trust Radjneesh and we feel his love Osho
He open my heart to Osho and i thank him for Osho
He only ask me to read Osho book and do simple meditate only for free prices and not to be cheat by high charge Therapy . Also Arun come Russia and many many friends Love him for Osho to feel
Why Puna against Arun and Radjneesh only
They are Love Osho and i know many many Russia come to Osho now for Radjneesh and Arun
Radjneesh come with Osho love to Krasnoyarsk Siberia and Ekterinburg and Bailkul Siberia Novosibirsk and all about Russia travel
So i love Radjneesh and Arun for Osho
Ma Devika Tara
Swami Dhyan anurag
Actually we want everyone back..There is no question about it.. I heard Osho saying this about sannyas
” When existence has chosen you to be here who am I to reject you for taking sannyas.. So I accept everyone and give sannyas ” Thats was the level of acceptance from him..You knew him more intimately than people like me who have never seen him
But Osho did threw out people . Didnt he?…You can talk about compassion for eternity..But what about handling people who create problems for others inside the commune ?
So it seems vision and the application of it in daily life perfectly , seems to be different
Few months ago me and Shantam started posting in this forum with a view to achieve something positive..We almost came close to requesting for a celebration in january.. We belived somehow if we can bring people together some majic can happen and everything will be alright
We were told we were being too naive.. But even today I dont think so.. people coming together can make a huge difference ..Keerthi did create a Invitation here through sannyasnews
So it is not a question of rejecting / hating anyone.. Before Sw Rajnessh went on the rampage against Osho i didnt have anything major against him.. The attack on Osho seemed inappropriate & highly contradictory to me
As we discussed more and more we realized the issue is in idealogy and also applying Osho vision in day to day management .. PUNE seems to be uneasy about a religion developing around Osho..
It is not very different from another Osho center where Bhajans on Osho are allowed where somone who is interested only in Osho vision but not the personality of the master not going to feel comfortable. They may feel the place to ‘ creepy ‘.. what we can do then?.. Can we reject the feelings of that person and say if you are not comfortable please go somewhere else ?
Increasingly those people will come.. people who want to do Dynamic meditation but who dont have anything to do with Osho as a person..
While we seem to take it for granted that heart oriented people are acceptable and they need to be comfortable anywhere the same logic is not applied for people who are more interested in Osho vision and not Osho at all.
Will you accept a place like Oshodhara and their enlightenment certificates and standard steps for reaching enlightenmet
But we cant digest because it is PUNE where the every tree leaf and every brick and every bamboo is related to Osho.
I am not here to speak on behalf of other sannyasins.. I am no body compared to all the sannyasins who dedicated their whole life to be with Osho .. So please dont misunderstand me. This is a forum and we are exchanging so many ways of looking at Vision and other aspects .. I prefer to take a view .. Sometimes i feel uncomfortable on what am doing here just by posting .. Will it make any difference to anything positively .. I dont have answers ..
My love for Osho keeps me here ..But sometimes we take opposite views on things and it seems we are against this or that etc..
Deep down it is painful for me to argue with a Osho sannyasin.. I dont want to do it .. I do it all the time in office , in the market place.. But When i see / speak to a Osho sannyasin honestly I just want to hug and dance ..nothing else
” I hope some day you will write for our Viha Connection magazine.”
Dhanyam.. That day will be a beautiful day in my life.. If i can share something like that .
OK Shanti
i will have to re invent the wheel for you
What Rajneesh says is also resonating in me.
It is also my personal feeling and now you have a chance to answer
Why is Prem Joshua and Milarepa and Miten & Premal Osho musicians banned
I want to hear from your intelligent point of view
why music is dangerious and which Guru Trip these Osho lovers and musicians are on.
This answer will be the true test of your credibility
If you cannot give a reasonable answer
then please shut up and get lost.
Dhyan Anurag
” Why is Prem Joshua and Milarepa and Miten & Premal Osho musicians banned ”
This one i would like to know.. I did send a mail to pune also asking for clarification on this point …as I couldnt digest a Prem Joshua can be banned as I love his music the most..
Anurag, Kranti, the issue is not weather we are interested in Oho or not… our beloved master is not more with us, his teachings, his words, are here in our hearts, in the ashram, etc. But he is not. That is a reality. In hurts my heart that it is so, but what can I do? He decided to leave his body and dissolve into existence.
So to be attached to him as if he was someone we can go see is absurd, as a human being, and more so as a sannyasin, if we are interested in our own evolution.
I have said many times I do not like the word resort and the yuppie groove, and Amrito not listening to anybody…
But I do not want to be associated as a sannyasin with people adoring an image of a master who encouraged us live our own life and be free. That is not what sannyas is to me. So, if in the ashram they are not celebrating his birthday… what is the harm? what is the big deal? do we celebrate birthdays of dead people?
We do not need excuses for celebrating… do we?
I think it is stupid to have Holy celebration days…
they decided to take them away… I am not going to cry over that, I´ll move to the next dancing party. My being alive is enough. i do not need pictures of Osho everywhere, he is in my heart.
What is all this stupidity with adoration of the master. I consider myself an Osho devotee. But I am not devoted to HIM, I am devoted to what he woke up in me. I am devoted my own meditation consciousness.
I was with Osho since 1984, and I saw all kinds of discrimination being done around him. From who could sit in front of him, to who could stay in his ashram and commune. Well it was HIs commune, he could decide who he wanted inside or not. I always understood that this was a game to be played in HIs terms, not mine. So, now the inner circle does the same. what do you expect?
One last point. They not banned. Neither prem joshua, not milarepa, not premal. they are just not allowed to play openly devotional songs of Osho. Milarepa was in the ashram last year. We has a nice chat. I still do not get used to his being bald.
Shanti.. Just to clarify In my last post i reffered to a get together type of celebration for all people..Not Osho birthday celebrations..Even i am not personally comfortable celebrating birthdays of Osho..
” One last point. They not banned. Neither prem joshua, not milarepa, not premal. they are just not allowed to play openly devotional songs of Osho. Milarepa was in the ashram last year. We has a nice chat. I still do not get used to his being bald. ‘
Swami Anurag you got the answer..Me too..
Thank you Shanti.. Oh! I was awaiting a reply from Pune on this for days ..
Shanti can you also tell me whether all this hue and cry about banning is real or very exagerrated.. for example Anurag was thinking Milarepa was banned..But you have seen him there .. So it is not true..
Similarly lot of this banning stories might not have been totally true.. I am not saying it is not happening But the news flows about banning & the reasons seems to be an exagerrated and in lot of cases untrue.
( I do apologise to people who have genuine reasons on why they should not have been banned .)
Last final word from me here (for today anyway, enough!):
Osho said he (and presumably, any ‘fully enlightened’ being) is/was vast…he said he contained all, even Hitler etc…(Even the ‘pundits’ (lol) on Sannyas News!).
But that’s the vastness of never-ending time and space, isn’t it? Total silence…Death and Life as one mystery…(or so I’m told, I wouldn’t know personally). And on a human level, pure joy, infinite compassion?
To really “see Osho” is surely to go within and find that reality, anything outside is at the most a pretty pale reflection?
” people coming together can make a huge difference ”
Was thinking about this particular line.. Osho talks about the taste of meditation and bliss and how we lose touch with that taste. .. may be if we can get together and dance we will gte back some taste of what people are longing for.. Just for Osho’s sake..
” he said he contained all ”
Did He ? When it came to mundane issues?
Shanti states ” officially ” ( Resort Managment )
One last point. They not banned. Neither prem joshua, not milarepa, not premal. they are just not allowed to play openly devotional songs of Osho. Milarepa was in the ashram last year. We has a nice chat. I still do not get used to his being bald.
This is a Total Lie
We have met Prem Joshua in dlehi and we also know that Milarepa is banned from the Resort for singing Osho songs in Russia. Also Miten & Premal are banned and have been asked by the Resort not to publish any more Osho songs.
And who says the Inner circle has the ” Authority ” to bar them from singing the Osho songs that were created by them for Osho ??
Shanti you want to justify this insane act of the Inner Circle and here Kranti is happy to have got
” the Official Answer ” from the Shanti Resort
Such Pure Bullshit and Misleading Shanti who appears she is the official Resort spokesperson here
Blind will lead the Blind
Dhyan Anurag
Kranti. Some time ago Anthony gave a very good analysis on why people were banned during osho´s time and after, when he said, worked in the welcome center ( the official banning Office).
My own experience is that many times people are not allowed to do something inside and they banned themselves. I do not remember the name of the man who used to lead heart dance. He had been doing it for years. when the changes begun to happen he was asked not to sing songs that were directly addressed to Osho, and not wear the mala outside when leadihg heart dance. he refused to do so and went to lead heart dance, at least for a while, in Mogul gardens. He exiled himself from the ashram.
Milarepa made many devotional songs and was asked not to sing them in white robe or sannyas celebrations. So he sings them in osho centers, other communes, but not there. So, he goes every so often just to meditate and being in the place. he chose not to be exiled.
When Neelam left the inner circle she was not banned. She actually decided to leave herself. But later on she gave an interview to an Indian newspaper speaking against the administration and then she was banned. So Keert and satya vedant followed her and I am not sure if they are banned or self exiled.
Priya was banned for supporting the law suit against OIF.
But this was common in Osho´s time, as heraclito.
I saw shyam singa, One of soho´s first disciples, i saw brett the adviser of the ranch, shivamurti, Deeksha, Satya bharti, Laxmi, Somendra, mallika, gambira, Little siddhartha, Yoga nishant. Veeresh and Samadhi,for a while. all very well known people, therapist, early disciples.
this has been an ongoing practice all the time.
Miten and premal, wre banned diring the winterseason , I think was 2005 , beacuse they went to sing to Rameshj Balsak ( I am not sure that is the right name) in bombay, but it was only for that time.
Anurag. i am not the resort spoke woman… read my posts!!
I was with Milarepa!!!
It is strange that If i say something positive about the ashram ways i get defined ” as the resort spokesperson”.
Meaning i can not have my own mind about it. If i say something negative… then it is ok… I am being objective… this is bullshit.
So much fanaticism exasperates me!
QUOTE:
One last point. They not banned. Neither prem joshua, not milarepa, not premal. they are just not allowed to play openly devotional songs of Osho.
This sounds like the official Resort statement
from the mouthpiece of Shanti’s Ashram
A great Authoritative answer
and firm support of this Inner circle decision
coming from Shanti’s Ashram in Barcelona via Poona
I have no intention of escalating in a derogatory innuendos with You anurag.
I have stated what i believe and know. if you do not like it it is your trip.
Shantam, darling where are you? did you get my mail?
Shanthi.. thank you very much for the details. I was in need of that info as that was one point that had been disturbing me.. Thanks for puuting things in the right perspective
Sw Anurag… When SAhanti has seen and chatted with Milerpa in pune itself then why are you not believing it .. I think it is wrong to say someone is lying like that.. Thats degarding ..
There is huge difference between getting banned to do specific things and getting banned from the place itself.. Think both type of banning is being generalized as ‘ banning ‘ and it gives an impression that all the people are getting banned from the place itself ..
By the way Shanthi .. that must be ‘ Ramesh Balsekar ‘
He left the body few days ago .. I have read his book ‘ Conciusness Speaks ‘
If you are interested you can see the website
http://www.rameshbalsekar.com/
yes, that is the guy
Sorry the book i read was ‘ Peace And Harmony
In Daily Living ” .. I got it wrong
Are you aware he was CEO of big bank in India.. Think after retirement he moved deeply into spirituality and awakened ..
Oh la la…Shanti Kranti
Such a nice and cosy chatting place with such warmth and love and comfort you all have here
Like a nice quite place by the fire sipping congnac
and spiritual talks in the background with the perfect feel good factor setting in here
Sleep well my friends and pat the backs of the Inner Circle baboons and there will be great rewards for you both waiting at the Resort Zoo
Dhyan Anurag
Good night dear. say hi to rajneesh, amitabh, meera and everybody sharing the laptop on rajneesh´s med camp.
med camp is not medical camp i suppose .. Only in medical camps they cut the d… out of compassion ofcourse
Perhaps that is why Anthony never came back. if rajneesh would have offered to cut my tits I´ll be out of the picture too.
what a great zen master. We need more butchers like him!
Anthony ran away because you were chasing his pants desperately and now you are chasing Shantam’s pants and trying to take on Kranti’s pants
Regarding your tits being chopped off by Rajneesh. Guess they are hanging now and he will leave these old hag tits to drop off on their own accord
So do not worry and enjoy idle gossip as you will not get that special treatment from Rajneesh
Dhyan Anurag
hey anusrag,
why you so angry?
like i said,get out there and grab some nice pale hippychicks before the doppelganger cuts your dick off!
Anurag you are getting obscene! and a bit off the line.
But I am sure you can rationalize your behavior as ZEN. the way your master rajneesh does.
That is the ultimate justification. decor violent insulting behavior a zen stick for you own good!
That is just lack of honesty… or self knowledge.
But it is not suprising that coming from Rajneesh folds you can make such rude sexual remarks to me… But don´t worry i will not leave. My skin is thinker than Anthony´s.
Shanti Yes we all know that your skin is thick
like an elephant.
Hope that all the rest of your body parts do not resemble the same thickness.
You talk about your own tits bering chopped off
and i reassure you that they will be safe and you call that rude sexual remark ??
What a Joke we have Shanti here
Dhyan Anurag
Dhyan Anurag,
Don’t tell to Shanti that her skin is thick.
Not her skin yet, but i have seen her photo few minutes ago, She seems to be as fine and refined, from inside out as Silk or Satin.
Any way, if you read the posts of me for the last few months, i am one of the most vocal critic of the resort admistration.
But the way, Rajneesh and people under his influence are going seems to me not less than militancy. it is almost like Talibanism of sannyas movement.
When people cannot hear and bear criticism and come on a very derogatory language, it shows also that home work is still undone, in a hurry they have put the nice clothes without cleaning first the po po!
Hello sannyas news people
I am from Punjab Sw Gyan Prakash
Am old sannyasin of Osho and very good friend of Swami Gurudayal Singh who was laughing buddha Osho Poona days
Am reading all talks about Osho samadhi case and about Rajneesh Swami.
Gurudayal Singh was great friend of Rajneesh Swami who helped him many times for medical hospital bills and Gurudayal talked many times about him
Gurudayal was told to leave the Ashram as he was too old to do anything there in the ashram but he was still guarding all his life Osho gate. Still they asked him to leave the ashram.This Amrito and group removed this Old Osho lover and every joke was Gurudayal Singh time for Osho talks.
We all listen about Rajneesh Swami in Punjab and have invited him to come anytime here.
We all support his idea to open the Osho samadhi and not not to allow the people in Poona to take control of Osho ashram
We are from Punjab and strong people here
as Osho always says Punjabis are heart and strong people, and we are all supporting Rajneesh Swami here and agree with him.
Swami Gyan Prakash
Shantam
I agree with you and appreciete your comments and posts as fair and balanced views
So please read all Shanti posts and you will see her behavior and biased and loud and judgmental
So i am just settling this matter with Shanti
But i am glad that Shanti is not a thick elephant and that she is privately sending her photos to all the group guys to get their attention and win their opinions
with sex appeal.
Dhyan Anurag
Anurag,
She is not sending her photos, i have requested through the pages of sannyasnews.
Because she is not on the facebook,but if you are, i will add you on my friends list, your co companion Meera is also on my freinds list.
Listen dear, We are representing Osho and nobody else, so our responses towards other sannyasins must be very dignified. Other sannyasins are HIS PEOPLE.
He is not in the body, may be he is having unending honeymoon with Nirvano up in the blue sky, but here on earth, WE ARE HIS PEOPLE.
Once i was asking this question to Amrito(canada) who is a fan of Arun ji, the same question i ask you,” If i abuse Osho or Rajneesh, when your buttons will be pressed more.?”
Feel the question and than answer.
So Shanti ji,
Now you know, i have got your mail.
I may not be as beautiful as you are, so what?
And yes… i may not be as successful as gurus in the Bazaar, but am sure, not less intelligent than them.
And this i can say for many many of our fellow travelers on Osho Airlines unlimted.
Thanks
shantam
If Shanti also responds with dignity to the important issues raised by Rajneesh then i will also respond with dignity.
Just read all Shanti ugly reactions and judgements and abusive behavior on this forum against Rajneesh.
So i feel that i need to defend Rajneesh also
as he too is a sannyasin and is a devotee of Osho
since 29 years and an honourable loving and sinciere
friend to all sannyasins.
Just admit that he has made many valid points and thousands are supporting him as the voice of the silent majority of sannyasins.
Rajneesh is also ” HIS PEOPLE” and i cannot allow people like Shanti to attack an innocent man here.
If you have read his book you can feel his experiences
and the truth in them and also see that he has devoted his entire life for Osho and his Vision
So please take this matter to Shanti and those who are spreading lies and mass propoganda against this individual and lover of Osho
I am sure you will see i am not reacting but responding to the living situation on this forum where one man is targeted by the vested interest and the ones i power.
Osho was targeted also and here Rajneesh is being targeted and one day you will see why i am attempting to defend Rajneesh
swami Dhyan Anurag
Anurag. You do not defend what rajneesh says. You defend Rajneesh. Because you love him. and it is understandable. I do not love the guy. I can see the flaws, the deception… but that is my thing. If you come like pentecostals parading propaganda in favor of this guy I will say NO. do not push him down my throat. I am sorry, But NO.
You keep insiting “rajneesh is such a beautiful lover of Osho…”. NO, I think he is exploiting sannyasins, deceiving new sannyasins, inexperienced sannyasins for his own glorification..
I ´M sorry i say NO, I do not need anyone to represent me..specially not him. It is shameful that He calls himself a sannysin.
That is my stand.
And then you end with megalomaniac prophetic statements: “and one day you will see why i am attempting to defend Rajneesh”
I said NO.
Shanti
I am not pushing Rajneesh down your throat.
You are pushing your opinions and judgments
against Rajneesh down others throats
Be clear that you are pushing your opinions
i am defending against your judgements and agressive behavior
and Shanti
you are judging Rajneesh all the time
and Osho says do not to Judge others
Stop playing the Judge
who knows all and everything
and i will leave you alone.
Anurag
I think he is exploiting sannyasins, deceiving new sannyasins, inexperienced sannyasins for his own glorification. pretending to represent us all: when in reality he is representing himself.
Do you think I can be impartial about this?
Swami Anurag . Can you first save / defend Osho from Swami Rajneesh then you can proceed to defend Rajnessh from others..
Because Osho is the basis and without him there is no reason why we should be in this forum
Osho’s image has been seriously damaged by Rajneesh… Even Osho’s biggest critics had not spoke the kind of things rajneesh did.. things like Osho used sannyasin labour and that poor man conditioning stuff etc etc… If Osho is enlightened then how he would have past conditioning? He questioned every aspect of Osho including Osho’s awareness / awakening
So my humble request to you guys..Save Osho first
If Osho doesnt need your support then Rajneesh also will not need
Not only Osho was reduced to a cheap guru after money but ZEN was also reduvced into some kind of slaughter house concept with all these dick cutting and Tits cutting..
What a show we are having..
Anurag,
i have already repeted few times, let rajneesh people create rajneeshnews or similar portal.
Atleast here at sannyasnews, let Only Osho be the boss and let His people express their wishes, inspirations and visions about ashram and globally.
Neither JAyesh is sacred here, nor Rajneesh.
We are doing critical analysis of the whole situation and you should also participate and the readres too, but don’t defend anybody here other than Osho and his vast interptations.
And I am not mature enough to celebrate the cutting of my d…
who says that he has only new and inexperienced sannyasins around him ??
and even that new sannyasins are blind is your judgement again here.
Do you want an extended list of all the old sannyasins since 1964 who are with Rajneesh today ??
these old sannyasins are with Osho since his Acharya days in Bombay and even from Jabalpur days ??
Jabalpur OshoAmritdham Ashram
Swami Anand Vijayji is the oldest friend of Osho and has the first Osho Ashram in India in jabalpur
He always invites Rajneesh to have his meditation camps in his ashram in jabalpur.
Swami Puri of Jabalpur since 1970 days
Swami Ganga knows Osho since 1964 khajharao days has invited him to khajharao for camps there.
Swami SatyaTeerth the oldest sannyasin in Kutchwara and in Japan has Rajneesh celebrating Osho birthday this year in Kutchwara ashram.
Swami Bhram Vedant of Gujarat is the most senior sannyasin and has invited Rajneesh for 19 january celebration this year.
Swami Swabhava ambassador to Osho India is friendly with Rajneesh and he has visited their ashram in Gujarat few months back.
Swami Purnanand,
Swami Siddhart in Gujarat disciple since 1974
Swami Siddhart of holland since 1974 bombay days and Vitesha of 1974 years and this list is endless of the old and sinciere sannyasin who are meeting Rajneesh and even offer their own ashrams for major important date celebrations. The list of well known sannyasin is long
Rajneesh is loved by all sannyasins and you can see the photos of all his camp on the website and recognise all these loving old sannyasins.
Only you are infallable and wise here and know that all these are stupid and inexperienced new people.
NO these are the new people
who have Open Eyes and Open Hearts
and these are the facts and not blind judgments
Anurag
Shanti Ma,
I think he is exploiting sannyasins, deceiving new sannyasins, inexperienced sannyasins for his own glorification. pretending to represent us all: when in reality he is representing himself.
Do you think I can be impartial about this?
Osho’s one books is called, ” Dekh Kabira Roya”
means ” kabir is crying after seeing”.
It is not just he who is exploiting sannyasins, many others are doing the same, inside the resort gates and outside.
Few are doing this by claiming enlightend( Sarlo’s guru rating website is full with such names) and few are doing this in their intellectual capacity, because they are sitting at White House sorry Krishana House.
And we the bystanders, the people who built the foundation of the whole show are standing on the foot paths, looking amusingly or helplessly, how the guys are taking ” Pretty Woman” for a ride!
Propaganda. so rajneesh has like what?… 10 followers. thanks for the whole list…
besides. there might be lost of gurus, people who were osho´s sannysins. I do not have a problem with that. But if a bozzo comes to tell me that he is going to represent me… well.
Besides this is the only one using the confusion of names to self promote.
the others are the dhara people. Just clowns with handkerchiefs in their heads. but they are making their own bussiness, they are not ” freedom fighters” for “my own good”. who use violent threats for “my own good”. Who self-promote saying they will wake me up, without me asking. That is just pentecostal mentality, mixed with zen rationalized violence and deception.
Kranti
I read Rajneesh and the rolls royce matter and agree that what he says is correct on this matter.
If you read the beginning of the thread then he is answering this matter from the standpoint and view
of the statement that Osho Made
” that the sannyasins were merely contributing their labour and nothing else.”
Rajneesh was addressing his concerns about TODAY
that TODAY this issue is important
that NO respect or regards for sannyasins
in the commune creation process is given.
And the source of this is Osho himself.
Osho promised that no single person will ever hold Power over other sannyasins again after Sheela.
And today with the so called vaugness and secrecy Mandate named Inner Circle allows the misuse of these powers is directly related to Osho
Transparency and Accountability and Freedom
Just 3 words would have sorted out this corruption
Sure Osho had conditioning as he points out that even Buddha Mahavir Krishnamurti Ramakrishna and all master have their conditioning
Are you suggesting that Osho is the infallable Pope and has no conditioning whatsoever and the only perfect Master ever ?
Every commue under Osho failed and sannyasin paid the price. So Rajneesh is clearly pointing these issues in the interest of sannyasins whi are again coming together and says that these misitakes should not be repeated and the new Master should be simoply a friend and also Accountable and Transparent in the material world of things that relate to the lives of sannyasins who donate and give all their money to Gurus in the past as in the case of Bhagwan
and his rollys royces.
And Hail Rajneesh fo rhis guts and clarity.
Osho would be proud that his sannyasin
is not a blind puppet and has his own voice.
Rajneesh is a total devotee
with Open Eyes as he says.
Dhyan Anurag
My God! This thread is becoming a Vote bank for Rajneesh!
Anurag.. Is that an oldies asociation or what .. Couldnt they let go of the need for a Guru yet ?
I was referring to that earlier days Video of Osho where Osho was talking about Awakening and the guys around Him were doing rituals to a cow instead of listening to Osho .. Think those are the guys Anurag is reffering to..
Anurag
How come Osho will behave according to conditioning if he is awakened ? Then what is the use of awakening?
” Are you suggesting that Osho is the infallable Pope and has no conditioning whatsoever and the only perfect Master ever ?
Every commue under Osho failed and sannyasin paid the price.”
My God! Anurag Those things are not because Osho conditioning .. but because of sannyasins conditioning.. What a reversal of logic..?
So you are agreeing all the things Rajneesh said about Osho .. So you and Rajneesh think you are better JUDGES of Osho himself..?????????
just few posts earlier you were asking Shanti not to JUDGE Rajneesh.. But you and rajneesh have so many judgements aboput Osho .. and thats ia right???????????
Dear O Dear ! What to say .. Let me take a break.. I can stand Osho being damaged like this..
” Hail Rajneesh ” ????????????????
I leave this to frank and Shantam and may be oshobob
Is he successor of hitler or what ?
a man with a lunghi
and his anusrag
and a few cow-worshipping hindu grandads
threatening to cut baboons` dicks off
scary movie!
Shanti is the bozo here and brainless
and actually a boooboooos only.
Who says Rajneesh is representing you ??
Don’t get over your head Shanti, even a dog would not represent you. Infact all the time bitching on this forum do you even have a lover or a boyfriend ??
And these few names you call 10 only
are lovers and wise devoted sannyasins of Osho
And with these 10 are thousands of sannyasins who also go to these ashrams which are also not recognised by the Poona Team of Baboons.
Do you want to now Judge these 10 names
and call them bozzos also ??
Just Try Please and you will know what happens
Rajneesh has a sense of humour so he laughs
but try and attack these 10 as boozos and you will see how soon you will run from this forum to Africa
Anurag
Ok. I surrender… Hail Rajneesh Mein Fürer!!
Frankie is this real… are you making this up?
So Kranti
Can you say why Sheela was placed by Osho
with total power ??
and why Osho blamed Sheela for the destruction ??
Was he blind to place Sheela with total control ??
Just answer clearly this Sheela placement and i will see your opinion about Osho and his understanding.
If 5000 sannyasins suffered this destruction
and only Sheela is to blame
then ofcourse Osho is wise and infallable !!
Or you will say it was a Device of Osho
to make the commune fail
Lets hear why Osho placed Sheela ??
Anurag
Winter is coming soon in Europe. With this will come flu.
it seems at sannyasnews, it has already come.
Anurag and Meera,
i think you know this proverb, ” Intelligent enemy is much better than stupid friends.”
When Osho was in the body, whole world was making jokes and satires about Him, sannyasins were enjoying this without getting offended.
As a 22 years old sikh boy with turben and Mala in 84, i myself have faced thousands of questions and it was pure fun.
I am sure both of you have missed that phase and surely you are living it now with Rajneesh.
Why can’t you understand that Shanti is walking with Osho since early 80`s. it is her right to feel offended when someone comes forward and behave like a saviour.
Kranti may have joined Osho after leaving His body but people like him will prefer to walk their walk alone rather than getting a borrowed satory from someone’s else energy.
People like Him amd Shahriar have also the right to criticise or appreciate someone as per their discretion.
And don’t forget Osho is not in the body, Mr. Rajneesh is. Let he defend himself from the slaught of his fellow colleagues from Poona 2 days.
inbetween enjoy the energy and meditation camps of Rajneesh. WHo knows, he may go again in silence.
and about blessing to cows around Acharya Rajneesh
do you remember that Osho Posed
before a Bajaj Scooter in Poona even after his return from America as the new Zen Master ??
Posing for photographs with a Bajaj Scooter ??
Smiling with his hands on the throttle
of the Bajaj Scooter, what Zen is here for you ??
Atleast the cow is a mliving being also.
Anurag
Don’t surrunder just ignore, Liebe Schatz!
In Hindi there is a proverb, ” converted ones say more ALLAH ALLAH than the Arabs!
When one reads the comments of rajneesh and co. One can say clearly, in the world of Osho, Taliban version was missing. Now it is complete.
poor old anusrag.
seems to have had his sense of humour chopped off along with his dick.
picture it:
osho the rolls royce guru,of america,one for every day of the year,gets back to india.
now he`s got a bajaj scooter
-but still sportingthe same big grin —–priceless.
absolutely priceless.
one of his best moments in my opinion.
i dont know if you call that zen.
i call it timing.
Here´s my theory:
Anurag is RajneesH himself, so is Satya.
HE IS just posting under other names.
How on hearth anurag has such a fast access to rajeensh famous invitations. he had it written down just in case?
He follows the same line of arguments on Osho as Rajneesh has … as if it comes from the same mind.
satya on the other side. made some comments on the other thread that only someone would have made about oneself.
there you have it…
oh hell.its all too confusing.
i am either going down to the pub,or the himalayas.
either way,i could be gone for a very long time.
nice to meet you and goodbye.
and may your god go with you.
Anurag- rajneesh I have a question for you.
Are you a sannyasin? because you seem to be so much against Osho… I am more confused than frank. Ok I´ll go to the pub
Osho Sannyasnews Active Meditation
Stage One:
Post new lead article at top of page by a sannyasin or friend of Osho. Be totally sincere.
Stage Two:
Post comments relating to lead article in a generally civil and neutral way. Try to sound educated and responsive.
Stage Three:
Divert topic and return it to previous contentious subjects of other threads. Take off the gloves and start the bar room brawl between posters. Keep punching, and don’t let up. Really go for it!
Stage Four:
Relax. Remain still. Celebrate.
Stage Five:
Go to next lead article and start vicious cycle again.
great bobbie… witty… you are taken my admiration too
Shanti..you are in the pub….
If you drink too much, get a taxi back home!
Is your lap top is also with you in the pub?
I can go sleeping with peace.
I hope tomorrow will be a new day, without gurus but with seekers…
what a joy it is to seek God and also girl/boy friend.
I am thinking to tell the church where i go for meditation that atleast once in a month, they should have Mass for those who are not seeking married bliss but just love, how so ever momentry it may be¨!
Kranti // Oct 20, 2009 at 4:19 pm
” he said he contained all ”
Did He ? When it came to mundane issues?
Don’t see your point here, Kranti…
Please ‘enlighten’ me!
Thank you Shanti, you fought a good battle against the LUNATIC himself!
Rajnessh sucks the blood out of new and innocent sannyasins in Russia.
His language is foul, not enlightened. His behavior just copying the mimics
of Osho, just a joke. But there are a lot of gullible people out there and he has some financial resources.
The arrival of Rajneesh copycat put the level of this forum to the gutter. He is the like the swine flu, but now how to get rid of his bullshit?
Kranti since you asked I will share my personal view about the core of Osho. I disagree that the essence is celebration. My understanding is that it is like saying the core of Osho is zorba. My path was initially strictly Buddhist, including vipassana treats that likely nearly drove me crazy. I felt the need for more physical exercise – to try and create more balance. This is why I started practicing yoga, which eventually led me to India and yoga ashrams. At one ashram a yoga Swami was teaching Osho dynamic meditation. A few of us from another ashram went there and we all had a blast to say the least. This is why I went to Pune. Of course I had also heard rumours that there were some delicious female seekers there too. Anyway what I found was a foundation of the Buddhist doctrine of meditative awareness (including a few Buddhist statues) and also the concept of expression of our energy – whether that be dancing, or flirting, or celebrating. This is what if found: ZORBA THE BUDDHA!!!
This Zorba the Buddha can still be found at the Pune resort. It is to me the essence of Osho’s philosophy and his vision: a life positive spirituality; yes to life yet also yes to our deepest questioning. The funny thing is that if it was not for the health and safety issues that I continue to raise, the style of functioning of the resort actually suits me just fine – and in this way I would probably say that I have a perspective similar to Anthony’s. I personally am not bothered about the Samadhi even though I spent a year in silence working there. I personally am not bothered about the pagoda being demolished either.
When I came out of many years in silence – which for me was still my personal ZORBA THE BUDDHA journey – I tried to make a contribution. One thing I found out was that people thought I was stuck in some self-pity trip and just wanted attention. I also found out about a lot of health and safety issues. I tried to fix things and could not be bothered here repeating what happened afterwards. If the chronic health and safety issues were addressed with even a little bit of common sense I would have dismissed people like Keerti and Swami Rajneesh has been as cuckoo as you average run of the mill exploitive fake Indian mystical loony. Just like Anthony I was happy with the general direction of the space. Although now that I think about it, even of the health and safety issues were addressed, the turning into an expensive resort is something that I would have strongly objected to also. I do not mind if there is a fancy restaurant and a 5-star hotel, but there should also be a healthy thali and allowance for seekers on a budget (the vast majority).
From my confrontations with the establishment is started looking and asking around. Also with the help of this site I have come to understand that there were so many other types of genuine Osho sannyasins, and that they had either been ignored in rejected. Now that I know this I find the situation at the resort even more disgusting. I am absolutely appalled by things like the destruction of the pagoda, not for me but for everyone that considered it personally sacred. What makes it worse is that I now realise how I was led to believe that what was presented was right and true and fully in accordance with Osho. I was led to believe that people like Dolano and Maitreya were black listed loonies. Only recently did I find out how Dolano was an old sannyasin that looked after the swans in Lao Tzu, just like I did for a couple of years. I am appalled, am disgusted, am utterly sickened and outraged: the lies and slander and hyprocisy and filth, and also the injustice to Osho himself. Worst of all is to know that the mainstream Osho movement is still alive and well. I can go to Osho.com and it looks like heaven. I can go to Pune, stand near the front gate, and watch all the maroon seekers going in and out, blissfully unaware of the reality. Of course I would have to watch out for Dhyanesh and the security team if I did.
I arrived in Pune late 1999. I realize now that it was at the end of the Pune2 Ashram era, and at the beginning of the Pune2 Resort. This is probably why everything seemed to fit so nicely for a while, then I started wondering, and in the end became banned.
I cannot get any healthier than this Kranti. I am not interested in dialogue like Dhanyam is. I am not interested in Shahriars proposal that a guidebook be framed that limits powers, insures transparency and accountability, includes dialogue with the masses, and has a watch-dog.
OIF, the Inner-Circle, and Management Team India should be held to account for their injustices. They should not be allowed to come to a compromise now that the heat is on them. I am not interested in appeasing negligence and criminality.
Gosh I was reading the rest of the posts in shock. Finally Anurag makes a very clear point that addresses Kranti’s concern about Swami Rajneesh’s criticism of Osho. Why so many communes failed and so many sannyasins left destitute (at The Ranch and elsewhere)? Swami Rajneesh is offering an explanation, and also states that he would not allow this to happen. It is an immensely important question, and needs to be fully answered before any sane government would let the Osho movement flourish again – especially because the tragedy of The Ranch is unfolding again on a massive scale under everyone’s noses.
Yahoo
Abhay
Dear Kranti,
Thanks for your reply about writing for the Viha Connection. I am more than willing to take the first step by sending you our Viha Connection. Please email me your mailing name/address to oshoviha@oshoviha.org.
Love, Dhanyam
Kranti // Oct 20, 2009 at 4:19 pm
” he said he contained all ”
Did He ? When it came to mundane issues?
Kranti, take a look at this again and see how absurd your question is!
Osho said he contained Hitler, Genghis Khan etc., ie all the ‘evil’ as well as all the ‘good’.
Of course he did, what sort of ‘enlightenment’ would it be if any element of the human psyche were excluded, as being somehow ‘wrong’ or ‘not very nice’ (lol)? Or, too petty, too “mundane” for words, even?!
Containing all - and free of all, surely?! Utterly disidentified with the lot! Free of fear, free of the fear of death….
Now, how on earth (or in heaven!) can he not ‘contain’ what you term “the mundane”?!
You know…
‘Hitler? Oh yes, he’s in me all right, mate! (Nice bloke when you really get to know the guy, very misunderstood, in my opinion.”
“Petty daily concerns of Mr Wilkins (or Mr Nasrudin), the filing clerk from across the road? Oh my god, no, I’m above all that stuff, I only go for the VIP’s, I can’t be bothered with lesser mortals. Does my head in , it does. Below me, in fact.”
But maybe you mean something else? Let me know….
Meanwhile, I’m in the mood to continue a little…just to clear my thoughts, not that I’m pretending to say anything new or ’special’…
Why is such a man so loved and revered (’worshipped’ even by some)? Because he emits that aura of freedom, that completely clear inner space, that supreme at-easeness…so powerful, so wise, yet so utterly simple and innocent at the same time…
I recall those were my first impressions of Osho when I met him for the first time…
(And as we know from experience these same qualities are also perceived as somehow threatening to others, seeming to create hatred and distrust in them, so such an individual is almost certain to be ‘crucified’, in one way or another, isn’t he? Maybe even in ourselves…).
But Osho (and apparently, Jesus) seemed unafraid of their enemies, unafraid of death itself.
Why? How?
Surely because they must have already experienced ‘death’, in psychic (psychological/emotional) terms - and found it to be an illusion?
Leaving them totally free to be whatever and however they chose…
Strange thought, eh? We’re ‘on a spiritual path’ (if such a thing exists) in order to ‘die’ before we die….
Now, 1.40 am here in London and that really is “enough for today!” (LOL)
Now Shanti is playing Sherlok Holmes
elementry my dear Watsona
And Rajneesh is also Meera ( you forgot her )
and Anurag and Satya and Abhay and Amitabh and and
looks like the voice of many here huh ?
/////
And NHere´s my theory:
Anurag is RajneesH himself, so is Satya.
HE IS just posting under other names.
How on hearth anurag has such a fast access to rajeensh famous invitations. he had it written down just in case?
//////
Elementry my deary Shanti
I know these matters as i have joined Rajneesh
Mystic Rose tour this year and also attended the jabalpur camps last year.
Shanti feels it is not possible for so many people to have similar views or objections to the Inner Circle.
As she is right and all are wrong so all are Rajneesh himself positing from 5 different locations
Shanti feels that Rajneesh is giving her opinions attention which she is looking for in all the group male members here.That Shanti is the only true old discilpe of Osho here who understands and protects Osho.
She looks desperatly lost
and in need of attention from males members
who accept her views.
Anurag
Swami Anurag.. I am not going to sit on higher pedestal and statrt judging Osho and his actions.. Especially on the basis of what happened around him over which he could not have had total control.
But for your question mu understanding is this
What we think about Sheela is how we see using our mind. I dont think Osho would have seen her with same eyes.. Common !! Atleast for a enlightened guy like Osho sheela would not have been very different from others atleast to startwith.. then there is no such things as Compassion ..
So there is no question of Osho wrongly placing her in power and all.. Once the damage is done he took action based on options infront of him.. What else he could have done..
Osho talks about taking actions / deciding.. He says once you put the right leg forward then you can only put the left leg.. Now you can not say i will take right leg second time also.. This is mean to say there are consequences for human actions and they follow a normal cause / effect
So you can judge Osho based on what he did and What he didnt..
What you said about Scooter thing amazed me.. Like Frank said Anurag you did not see the lighter side of that .. then what about the pose with Wine glass in His hand.. ? Common Anurag.. Rajnessh has made you very serious..
Frank..As usual the scooter stuff was good one
But this time Oshobob beat you with His active meditation stuff.. Super thinking..
Man! I will not let go of thinking and opt for No mind if i have such creative thinking ability .. Seems people trying to get to no mind had very uncreative mind including me .. What you think about that Oshobob ..
Abhay
I simply loved the first half of your last post.. I almost fainted and saw a different Abhay.. Great to know what you psersonally liked / like..
But the second part of your post is bit judgemental.. ( apart from the health & safety issues for which i take your word.. You have facts and we never had a conflict there )
Even I also judge..Not denying ..I am not trying to preach here .. But the banning issue needs to be dealt with on case to case basis.. Generalizations will not do.. the there is banned from resort cases and banned from doing specific stuff cases.. It is bit more complex.. We will not go anywhere by generally shooting against banning..
I answered that Osho commune failure stuff.. I dont think we can make those kind of judgements and link all the failure to Osho..
If thats the case Krishna , Jesus and Buddha failed.. After all Buddha couldnt convince his guys in not creatinga religion out of him..He couldnt convince them to ‘ Be a light unto themselves ‘
Finally you say ” Swami Rajneesh is offering an explanation, and also states that he would not allow this to happen. It is an immensely important question,”
I DONT THINK SO . He cannot explain away what osho did.. How can somone be so sure about future ? Thats shows utter lack of respect for Life ..So it is not an important question for me..
Do you guys meant to say all those guys failed ? the failure is that sanyasins and followers . It is not the failure of awakened beings ..
Satya
” he said he contained all ” ..Did He ? When it came to mundane issues? ”
It is complex again.. May be once again i am not sharp/good enough with words in explaining deeper things .. May be i simplified the question too much as i was getting diverted by Anurag posts
What i wanted to say is containing everything is one thing and taking action on mundane issues is another thing where duality plays a role..And you have to choose.
It is more like what you said next ..
” To really “see Osho” is surely to go within and find that reality, anything outside is at the most a pretty pale reflection? ”
That containing everything is only potential stuff of awareness.. Actions is the menifested / duality part ..So Osho clould have done actions which didnt go down well with some people..and that is natural
My point is outer actions are pale refelections of the Inner whole being.. You cant judge a awakened being by actions .. Well you can… as far as those actions are concerned but not as proof of whether he is awakened or not..
Am i sounding alright? Of late i was too much into this Neo Advaita stuff also.. But I am more grounded in silence by understanding few things from people like Adyashanthi and Kiloby
Dhanyam
Thanks a lot. I am honoured..I sent an email from personal ID
” I disagree that the essence is celebration. My understanding is that it is like saying the core of Osho is zorba ”
Abhay… ” Celebration and ‘ Zorba the Buddha ‘ are the same.. NOT ” Celebration and ‘ Zorba ”
Why you split Zorba and equate to celebration
Unless you have different definition for Celebration..
Osho had a wholesome meaning for Celebration.. he never equated Celebration with Outer or Zorba . By celebration he meant acceptance of everything.. Zorba as well as Buddha
I am slightly nervous & uncomfortable when quite a few sannyasins here equate Celebration ( Osho way of Celebration ) with Celebration of birthdays or specific festivals or Zorba alone..
I really loved this description of Osho by satya Deva although i wouldnt like to define him but just for the sake of Love for Osho..It is very Beautiful..
” he emits that aura of freedom, that completely clear inner space, that supreme at-easeness…so powerful, so wise, yet so utterly simple and innocent at the same time…”
Yes, Kranti, he ‘taught’ at least as much through his being, as through his words and actions, didn’t he?
That presence…
And ‘no one’ actually there!!
A living Zen conundrum…
What a mysterious joke! (No wonder Mahakashyap laughed his head off!!).
Kranti:
What i wanted to say is containing everything is one thing and taking action on mundane issues is another thing where duality plays a role..And you have to choose.
I get you, Kranti, and I agree.
One of the things that has become clear to me (and many others) over the years is that an ‘awakened’ person, a great Master even, can make mistakes, they are fallible.
That doesn’t detract from their inner purity of consciousness (as far as I can tell!), it simply reflects that in the outer life, where the mind is brought into play to assess situations and act accordingly, errors can be made.
I find this refreshing, rather than depressing or ’scary’, as it tends to makle one more self-reliant. How about you?
” I find this refreshing, rather than depressing or ’scary’, as it tends to makle one more self-reliant. How about you? ‘
Satya Deva.. Thats is actually the point i was trying to make.. It is the same with me.. Infact this is where i was able to see the world of ‘ Becoming ‘ and ‘ Doing ‘
Once we realize that the ‘ ME ‘ is just functional and not the real idenity it puts us at ease and whatever you do you do it based on the situation. There is no effort to become this or that and an activity you do in the world is not linked to your inner being..
I am not desparate to prove myself to myself by trying to do things rightly or perfectly because there os no such thing as ” ME ‘.. It is just a bunch of conditionings ..and an illusion of someone sitting there trying to be in control..
Although i am in love with Osho i wanted to understand this Inner being thing in other words from other teachers.. So I listened a lot to adyashanthi , Mooji or Scott Kiloby.. I wrote to few of them and received loving responses..This helped me to understand that everyone is talking about the same ..Only the way it is presented is different..
It is little scary initialy to understand I DONT EXIST ..I am getting used to it at a conceptual level..But what they call awakening is even more deeper at Non-Conceptual level..
Infact the more i listen to other teachers the more wonder at the beauty and poetic expression of Osho about everything.. He is too vast.. But poetic..leaves lot of gaps which you need to fill ..unlike others who try to bring everything in words.. Thats is alo required for sometimes..when we try to understand something logically to the end..
‘ That presence…
And ‘no one’ actually there!!
A living Zen conundrum ‘
Whatever else I may or may not experience in my life, whatever evolution does or doesn’t take place, I know that something in me will never be the same after encountering this man.
This was originally clear during my first days of dynamic meditation and listening to his talks (while resting, exhausted, on the floor of the old London centre!), but was confirmed soon after meeting him in India.
He even said as much in one of the earliest discourses I attended, after I’d sent him a poem I’d somehow written a couple of days before (and I was not in the habit of writing poetry!).
Not that it was only meant for me, of course, but it felt personal anyway:
“Now, something of awareness has entered into you, now you will never be the same” (or words to similar effect).
Don’t usually feel inspired to write like this here, I suspect it might possibly be down to the nearby presence in north London since yesterday of Amma (Sri Mata Amritanandamayi),the great ‘hugging saint’, who’s around for three days….
Wasn’t sure I’d go, but now feel I somehow ‘must’….
Thanks for the dialogue, Kranti, it’s been good. All the Best to you!
Kranti
Now places 10 postings in a row
All confused with part answers and part question and part deflection of matters without any direction at all.
And is very elated that Dhyanam is going to now place his wisdom and understanding in Viha magazine.
What a drama and Kranti on the stage is confused.
Keep the posts coming and in this confusion the Inner Circle laughs and the smoke screen is made for them to escape the pressure.
Great job Kranti
as we can your Master Amrito behind you.
Anurag
Kranti:
It is little scary initialy to understand I DONT EXIST ..I am getting used to it at a conceptual level..But what they call awakening is even more deeper at Non-Conceptual level..
Just seen this…
Problem for me with these teachings is that they tend not to adequately address ‘human development’ issues and I reckon they can be even dangerous if we’re not ready enough, mature enough on a basic body/mind level.
Kranti:
Infact the more i listen to other teachers the more wonder at the beauty and poetic expression of Osho about everything.. He is too vast.. But poetic..leaves lot of gaps which you need to fill ..unlike others who try to bring everything in words.. Thats is alo required for sometimes..when we try to understand something logically to the end..
I think I know what you mean, Kranti. For me, for example, I’ve found the teachings of Barry Long (Australian Master (believe it or not! lol) very valuable. Not that I can go the ‘whole way’ with him, but he’s shown me things I never found with Osho.
Anusrag… as frank affectionately calls you, stop picking on Kranti…
he just has a differnt view than you that is all
( I think we are now in the resting stage of oshobob sannyas news meditation. time for a new thread).
I would like to respond to abhay, due to have had the pleasure to read an honest intelligent post. That is not related to water issues.
I agree with your opinions regarding the workings of the resort. But what is important to me is to state that it is not a deviant from the original source but in the contrary an extension of the way things were done under osho´s regime.
It Is Osho´s design. Hiding truth was used always under his knowledge. In a way rajneesh is right, although what he proposes is just a cunning trick to sell his second -hand merchandise.
I remember having a long conversation with Michael Barnett ( former Somendra, a very close early therapist disciple) and we both agreed that Osho was a manipulative fellow, but there was, sadly, no other way to get done or accomplish whet he did in any other way.
I do not know if enligjhtement puts you beyond good and evil, but certainly osho chose that position openly,and in a way, he can only be accountable for what he stated. H
He said he was amoral. So he twisted facts, invented stories about buddha that were never in any scripture, banned people who made too many questions, or bothered him, twisted facts to fit his vision, etc.
But his impact in human consciousness has no parallel in history.
Thereforei, I find it hypocritical that people like Keerti or Neelam, tearing down their cloths for the way things are done pune , when they were instrumental in applying that way for years. i saw Neelam banning people who she did not like.
Now this rajneesh fellow is just a third rate imitator, using his position to get someplace in the book. i do not blame him, you can not “bend over” for ever. at the end, every disciple wants a piece of the cake.
It is just natural human psychology
” Don’t usually feel inspired to write like this here”
Find new ways to get inspired Satya Deva.. You really helped me to see some aspects more deeply..
Yes.. I do agree on the view you have about other teachings. Infact there is this crticism on these teachers that they simplify Advaita ( Neo Advaita ) too much and all.. But to me I will rather listen to someone who simplfies Advaitha rather than listening to someone who adds unneccessary complexity and concepts ..
Thats why I view those three teachers as simple and beautiful..Very direct
By the way do let us know of your Amma experriences if you choose to go..
Thanks.
Anurag
I explained this earlier.. I Live in India and by the time i sit infront of system so many posts had come. I reply to everyone..
Anurag if you read all the posts which are not addressed to you confusion will arise .. But you cant project your confusion on me..
As far as posting style is concerned I have my own style..I dont write 400 line essays thinking that i am addressing all the problems of humanity
Relax Anurag..
Dont worry about Dhanyam request.. at the most i will post some news / jokes I know.. i will not post anything related Rajneesh..
I am curious to know whether you were present during that COW ritual in that Video ” Bhagwan The Movie “? Do let me know..
” invented stories about buddha that were never in any scripture, ”
Ya..he agreed also that he has talk using the language of different paths to get people attention
Essentially he was not concerned about 101 paths..He used to communicate what he wanted.. Now that we know what Osho wanted to communicate I am alright with it.. I am laughing and thanking Osho in a way .. When people refused to let go of their way of seeing what else he could have done? Thats why HE is a master not just a teacher.. He got the message across finally..
Even now given a choice for some people you will find more COWS than sannyasins in PUNE
” I think we are now in the resting stage of oshobob sannyas news meditation. time for a new thread ‘
Someone needs to take the initiave..Shanti it may be your turn..
Dear Kranti
You have listened discourses of many fake advaita teachers.
It is high time for you to start meditating.
What about having a real taste of meditation???
My suggestion for you is to attend at least one meditation camp of Rajneesh
and experience real meditation and celebration.
love
amitabh
Dear Anthony
you said “Now this rajneesh fellow is just a third rate imitator, using his position to get someplace in the book”
Swami Rajneesh never had an power position in the Pune Ashram. He was an simple sannyasin and was more interested in meditation than in power games of the ashram.
So where does the question arise about using or misusing Power.
love
amitabh
Thanks for the beautiful suggestion Amitabh..I will do that when the time comes.
I dont restrict msyelf from learning from other teachers also and thats why i mentioned them…
By the way have you ever listened Adyashanthi or Mooji or Scott Kiloby..They dont teach anything fake.. They simply point about the falsity of ME ..thats it.. If you had not listened to them so far please do so and let me know ..
Anthony does not know anything about Rajneesh
He left his family when he was 16 years of age and never went back home.
He found Bhagwan when he was 18 and from then only devoted his life towards Bhagwan and his inner journey which makes it 30 years on the path.
All those who remember him say he was always alone and never with any type of group
His family collectively is worth over 6 Billiion US$
and if he wanted power or postion or any place in the world it would be very very easy for him anyday.
He has always been rebellious against his family and even laugh at their wealth openly.
His famiy is known to have donated millions to hindu spiritual organisations in india and abroad and always asked Rajneesh to leave Osho and his image behind and they would gladly help him.
Rajneesh has never taken even a single rupee from his family and always worked independantly abroad on his own and earned his own salaries through creative design work. Whenever he worked abroad he earned international awards and a huge income as he is creative which he himself attributes to his meditation and to Osho
He has also donated most of his money towards his love to other sannyasins out of his own personal earnings and salaries.
He has never earned anything for his meditation which he says is out of his love and not for sale.
He never charges for any meditatioon cams as he is against therapist who only make it a profession.
Now here is a man who has attacked hs own family for their greed and loves a simple and ordainary life.
Walk in his shoes and see if you would leave a collective family worth 6 billion US$ and we will know your real worth
Talk is cheap, just walk the walk and walk your talk
Rajneesh does exactly that
Anurag
Kranti
I have heard discourses of Adyashanthi and Mooji.
They only teach fake.. because they thnselves are fake.
but it is good in a way for you.
because when you will meet Swami Rajneesh first hand.
Then you can clearly see the black and white (provided you are open)
love
amitabh
Dear Anurag
thanks for such an informative post
but i wonder whether people are really interested in knowing truth?
It is much easier to ridicule Swami Rajneesh and escape the effort to meet him or at least read his book.
I hope they attend Rajneesh’s camps and wake up
love
amitabh
well, well we have the pentecostal evangelicals back… promoting their bozzo master rajeneesh. No opportunity should be lost to make some propaganda for him.
What is the need to advertise him so much? if you have seen the light… jut go stay there. do not bother us here.- we really want to discuss something else than the “doppelganger” megalomaniac cheat of the red lunghi.
Honestly go promote your guru somewhere else.
Swami Amitabh
What you mean by ‘ fake ‘ ? Can you please help me to understand.. Those are simple teachers who point to the illsuion of the ‘ ME’ from different angle. What is the fake thing you see in them?
I think there is no harm if we spend few additional posts on this. after all we had spent 100 posts for body parts cutting concepts ..
They dont teach anything else.. They dont teach any methods which are harmful. They dont ask for blind surrender ..
Please enlighten me..
Shanti this forum is about Osho and his sannyasins
and you are always behaving as you own this forum
and calling Rajneesh a cheat and other names.
If all the members read all Shantis attacks on Rajneesh it will be clear that she is jealous and egoistic and wants to dominate this forum
So i wil continue to place the facts of Rajneesh here and you are no one to tell me to leave.
I was reading all the previous treads where there was continous mis-information and slander and judgments against Rajneesh and i never said anything, so i have decided to clear up all these attacks against this beautiful sannyasin.
It must have been fun for you all to go unanswered in the previous threads against Rajneesh and now you are sweating and hiding from the facts.
Shanti i will settle your judgmental mind just by continious hammering
to your blind and egoistic retorts.
Anurag
another Zen master? I thought with Meera and rajneesh himself offering to cut people´s dicks for their own good was enough. but now we have a new pentecostal evangelical who wants to hammer and promote his guru… great!
keep it coming.!
-Lets share some facts about rajneesh. he uses the name “Osho Rajneesh” in his webpage to catch by the means of name confusion people who think it is Osho
-He fishes in sannyas waters promoting himself as someone who would care about the sannyasins, the sangha, not like the dead Osho who did not care.
-He says to be devotee, but criticizes Osho whenever it is possible..,. and convenient
_ He mimics Osho´s hand gestures and body language… but prefers the acharya look.
_ he is parading India with a poorly written book. at least he should have got a ghost writer. the book is horrible written.
- he talks about love , but when his buttons gets pushed he turns violent, abusive, and make obscene remarks about other people.
_When confronted with the previous situation he rationalizes his behavior saying, he is just being ZEN… and joking… “people are too serious”. They should just take my aggression as love.
should continue?
So here right at the end we have Anurag and Amitabh coming back for a few last quick licks at Kranti, who penned the lead article about his love and celebration for his master Osho. They lay out Rajneesh’s dad’s financial portfolio for all to see, showing us just what the Bare-Chested One has given up for his spiritual purity. Impressive. Jesus could never say that story, that’s for sure. Father Joe was just a poor carpenter, mom Mary at the bottom of the Jewish social stratum, and the Stud-Man himself — the Holy Ghost — just disappeared from the household completely after he was through “fulfilling his holy duty” with Jesus’ mom –never to be seen again. I think we can be pretty sure that J.C. never designed any watches, although there was a mention, now that I think of it, of some sort of “last watch” in The New Testament, wasn’t there…? And too, there’s ‘The Last Temptation of Christ’, which Nick the Greek turned into a boffo bestseller…sex and spirituality — mix those two together and you always have a good equation for controversy, which is what basically everyone is looking for anyway…
Shanti just bullshit againand again
Have you read why he uses the website name
Osho Rajneesh and in his answer to Shantam in previous threads ?
Have you read his own reply about his actions that appear similar to Osho ??
And all these judgments have been answered to by Rajneesh himself
And how about your cheat statement now that it is revealed that his collective family is worth
6 Billion US$
Have you dropped the Cheat of Rajneesh
as it sounds silly now ?
Cut the crap and see your jealousy pen for all to read.
You are a waste of Life so go get a Life
Anurag
WQhen I use the word cheat is not related to hismoney. I know he comes from a wealthy family and thet he made money a s a watch designer for sweiss company.
Use the word cheat beacuse he is after his self promotion and pretends to be there to ” help” other people. He is just using my master for his own personal ego trip.
It is not a big deal that he does it all for free… If i had that money i would design for free ( I am a designer).
All the answers he gave were just rationalization sof his behavior. that is all.
_ Another fact. If he does not care about promoting himself, Why did he send his brochure to the whole list of meditation centers from osho.com?
Mmh? answer me that?
Shanti what a ridicilous question
He is an Osho disciple and his people sent out all the email about the launch of Tears of the Mystic Rose
to all Osho centers and Osho lovers as this is an Osho Book by an Osho disciple
The book is a love story between a Master and Disciple and all Osho disciple books have been promoted earlier by Osho poona and they are afraid for Rajneesh book on his journey with Osho
And why do you think that the addresses came from Osho.com as all these addresses are openly available anywhere in Poona.
Infact i stated that 80% of the Osho centers are banned and not recognised by the Poona Resort team and even those email adresses are available openly.
So Osho.com has very few on their list.
Oshoworld has many more than Osho.com
and there are hundreds of email that Rajneesh has received himself and i would ” guess ” that he has a mailing list of over 6000 email or more
Anyway far more than Osho.com as they have only listed their own approved centers and the rest are banned or unapproved centers.
Another question is how Inner Circle did they get the right to send circular propoganda against Rajneesh which is using Osho data for their own mass propoganda against ine man>
And Rajneesh sad himself laughingly that his website suddenly jumped after this Vatayana letter against him went out worldwide.
He is waiting for the Inner Circle to take some action against his open defiance and rebellion against their borrowed and false mis-used authority.
And they are cowards and silent now.
Anurag
and Shanti
please address the important matter of the Mandate
left for the Inner Circle by Osho
and their Mis Use of this Mandate
And what in your informed opinion are spiritual matters and what are mundane matters.
The Inner Circle is only basic managment of day to day mundane matters
And how about Amritos lies -
the promise on the death anouncment for Osho guidlines the next day story ??
these are the real questions Rajneesh is raising
and you are all stupifired and unable to answer and throw smoke on these issues that are really serious and expremely important today.
Now even i challange you to answer these real questions
Anurag
Dear Shanti
No one is advertising Rajneesh here.
In fact, he does not need any adveristment any more.
People like you who are jealous of Rajneesh’s inner realization are doing enough negative propaganda against him.
I am just stating the truth, which is my responsibility as a seeker on the path of truth.
Why we all spread words about Osho and His discourses???
Because Osho words are helpful for seekers. Same is true with Rajneesh and his meditation camps.
If someone writes positive about Rajneesh then it is not to advertise for him but to help the fellow travellers on the path.
But I understand that it might be hurting you, as you have missed meditation in this life.
My suggestion to you is that change this negative pattern, otherwise you might miss in next life too.. Please Do not sow wrong seeds for next life.
Try reading Rajneesh’s book again and If you get the courage then attend his camps.
There is nothing wrong in missing..
but one should start the journey again
love
amitabh
Dear Kranti
I do not discuss about moozi or adyashanti here as it is off track from the topic.
If you really interested then you can study about Poonja ji, madhukar, gangaji, andrew cohen books to know the whole set up urself.
One insight which I can share is - when we read words of a buddha then it takes to different dimension.
which is bound to happen as those words come from no-mind.
I suggest you to read words of these fake adavita teachers and Rajneesh book “Tears of The Mystic Rose” and know the difference urself.
love
amitabh
Dhyan Anurag knows all about his new mentor, the enlightened one. Mr. Rajneesh and the way i hear it seems, the ray of truth but only truth has come on the horizon…
I have one sincere question. May be one of His fellows can ask him. It is not about just sex,
I am excited to know so that history of masters get a new dimension, Whether Swami Rajneesh as per the status prefer only the Fellatio or as a matter of respect or taste or as reciprocate enjoys “69″ too.
He is young, smart, gurus like pop stars make many women a bit of Mooney,and he is from the school of Osho, so it is a very relevant question.
As far as this fellow shantam is concerned, i am sure enough not to steal any idea or title from our Master’s treasures, so once the final preparations are done, title of my first book will be-
“Sixty nine ways to inner awakening”
(69 is one of them)
I hope Rajneesh, our fellow traveler will not steal this poor man’s title. So as a matter of record, i am the first one to use it here at Sannyasnews.
Shantam
This is the first question that i love.
And will ask you to direct this question to Rajneesh himself and from what i know if him he will really enjoy this question
Rajneesh always answers each email directly as he says that it is his way
to answer openly and directly so please email him
Am curious about his reply.
his email is
rajneesh@oshorajneesh.net
Anurag
OK dear,
I copy the above post to our class mate Rajneesh, who has become a professor of a kind.
His answer will be also here for gossiping with my other intelligent yet spiritually unemployed friends.
Swami Amitabh & Swami Anurag
You had not answered my question why Rajneesh attacked Osho so badly..
He says Osho reacted out of Poor Man’s conditioning , He was money hungry and Sucked sannyasin labour because he couldnt get other US labour which is cotsly and what not..
Please just tell me whether you agree with Rajnessh on all things He said about Osho.. I will not not ask anything more
I am not defending Osho here.. HE doesnt need the support of an ordinary guy like me.. Anyway e has left the body… The quesions is how do you agree with such bad remaks and judgements about Osho
It has completely degraded Osho and questioned the fact that Osho was awakened and concious..
I am not saying Osho was infallible.. But he was a beautiful human being
This is how Satya Deva sees Osho
” he emits that aura of freedom, that completely clear inner space, that supreme at-easeness…so powerful, so wise, yet so utterly simple and innocent at the same time…”
See for yourself..
If you want I will copy and paste all thhe things He said about Osho for your convenience..
rajneesh did not send a mail advertising the launching of his book. he sent by air mail an actual full color 21 pages brochure called “the new man” with pictures of himself, mainly, and his camps in Russia, to the Osho meditation centers listed in the Osho.com page.
these meditation centers are meant for spreading the work of Osho, not anybody else ( as it was personally asked by osho) and have since they first started in the early seventies the mandate, from osho, to only spread HIS work, not the work of any other master. Including sannyasin satsang givers.
This has been a loong standing guideline.
Despite his former master´s wishes, rajneesh sent his material by air mail and asked to be invited to go to the centers. That is why the centers got the mail from Global connections. If Osho was alive it would have been the same. The rajneesh would have ended up banned.
That is what I mean by self promotion and deceive….calling himself Osho´s successor.
… and fishing in sannyas waters.
Kranti i already replied -
go back and read this thread october 20 at 9.03pm
but i am copy and paste again for you here
I read Rajneesh and the rolls royce matter and agree that what he says is correct on this matter.
If you read the beginning of the thread then he is answering this matter from the standpoint and view
of the statement that Osho Made
” that the sannyasins were merely contributing their labour and nothing else.”
Rajneesh was addressing his concerns about TODAY
that TODAY this issue is important
that NO respect or regards for sannyasins
in the commune creation process is given.
And the source of this is Osho himself.
Osho promised that no single person will ever hold Power over other sannyasins again after Sheela.
And today with the so called vaugness and secrecy Mandate named Inner Circle allows the misuse of these powers is directly related to Osho
Transparency and Accountability and Freedom
Just 3 words would have sorted out this corruption
Sure Osho had conditioning as he points out that even Buddha Mahavir Krishnamurti Ramakrishna and all master have their conditioning
Are you suggesting that Osho is the infallable Pope and has no conditioning whatsoever and the only perfect Master ever ?
Every commue under Osho failed and sannyasin paid the price. So Rajneesh is clearly pointing these issues in the interest of sannyasins whi are again coming together and says that these misitakes should not be repeated and the new Master should be simoply a friend and also Accountable and Transparent in the material world of things that relate to the lives of sannyasins who donate and give all their money to Gurus in the past as in the case of Bhagwan
and his rollys royces.
And Hail Rajneesh fo rhis guts and clarity.
Osho would be proud that his sannyasin
is not a blind puppet and has his own voice.
Rajneesh is a total devotee
with Open Eyes as he says.
Dhyan Anurag
Shanti is now the official Resort Baboon manament spokesperson as this is their official letter here.
And Rajneesh is not concerned about being banned himself at all as he never came to Poona for 17 years after 1990 banning by Neelam and Tathagat as mentioned in his book.
He stopped going to the Resort much before he was banned and was due to some issues
with Amrito and Dhyanesh and himself.
Vatayana mailed worldwide his banning
but you should know that Rajneesh was not even going to the Resort so why did they even bother to send out his banning letter worldwide ?
Anurag
Shanti and Kranti….
Anurag and Amitabh
6.5 billion people are on this earth with throabing hearts and a soul( even few will call the sleepy one, so what).
With the grace of God most of them don’t do meditation still their pain and pleasures, their dreams and inspirations bind us all in a common thread of love and sharing, fighting and than finding the ways towards peace..
Cann’t we stop foucsing on one man…
If he is too good, let the flowers shower on him and if he a little con man,,,who is better to judge than the cosmic intelligence,,,
or i can say-
Those who find, this new Pizzas maker is better than Pizza hut, enjoy your meal….rest of us here, go to Meera for our weekly Pizza……
Shit, the prize has gone too high in this fucking resort…..why it is not like ashram any more..!!
Thanks anurag I just wanted to reconfirm whether you and Sw Amitabh agree about these remarks about Osho .. The remarks about Osho are remarks about Osho.. I dont think we can justify it by putting a nice context around it..
Sannyasins contributed their labour as part of thier building a commune.. Out of love.. Osho didnt ask for their labour as labourers..That labout theory was one of the worst interpretaions i have even seen.
His other remarks about Osho & Rolls are even bigger personal judgements & interpretaions
If Osho behaved due to poor mans conditioning can we say Rajneesh is behaving due to Rich mans conditioning..Otherwise this 6 Million stuff theory will not make round..
And stating points like Rajneesh sacrificed 6 billion USd and he went against family etc are insulting the entire sannyas community… there were / are 1000s of seekers who sacrificed everything to be with Osho .. out of love..
Atleast i want to to stick to Osho and core aspects related to Osho.. thanks for sharing
Anthony if what is happening at the resort (and OIF) is an extension rather than a deviation this means a very simple fact. Someone or some people are extending Osho in some way. I ask you how that is possible? How can someone extend his legacy? My understanding is that who ever is taking care of his legacy has one principle role: to make Osho’s legacy available. Of course it assumed that his legacy should be preserved and protected.
There is no talk here of extension. Where did you get this idea? If it was for example that the now stream-lined Inner-Circle can actually extend Osho’s vision, then why did this not happen before? Why did not Osho just send Jayesh and Amrito up on stage to tell everyone how it is – both before and after he left the body? Why did Jayesh and Amrito not start giving profound discourses after Osho left the body? Why did Osho limit the scope of the Inner-Circle to practical affairs? Why did Amrito decline to tell the sannyas community the real scope of the Inner-Circle?
You obviously do not accept the simple fact that the Inner-Circle has a practical not spiritual scope, and that Osho had no successor. In your statement you are accepting that the Inner-Circle has the capacity (and presumably the right) to make decisions about Osho’s vision: extension, fine-tuning, change, deletion, or whatever.
I say that you like what you think is on offer and then you work backwards and take the assumption that Jayesh and Amrito are extending the greater Masters vision. You are also not willing to look at the obvious serious questions that might shatter your sweet dream, and I am not just talking about water.
Yahoo
Abhay
Kranti you find a little logical contradiction with Swami Rajneesh and all of a sudden you have destroyed him. I suppose you cannot find anything contradictory with Osho. I suppose he never made up stories or twisted situations for his purposes (presumably to raise our consciousness). Anthony at least has a reasonable understanding of this (in his post). Shahriar, Anthony, Kranti, Amitabh, and Abhay, here is the answer to your question. The Ranch disaster occurred for several reasons. It was in part a device from Osho. It was also in part Osho’s unwillingness to involve himself in others affairs - giving them the chance to grow around him and in his presence, hopefully with less and less learning from making mistakes. A third reason is based on the understanding that each Master has certain capabilities and therefore limitations. Although enlightenment enhances the unique qualities of a person, it does not bring about major shifts in type of talent. For example if a person of immense love and devotion (like Ramakrishna) becomes enlightened, he does not suddenly get transformed into an intellectual giant (like Vivekenanda). Osho was an eccentric intellectual genius, but not much of a manager. He perhaps understand better than anyone the ideology of communism, but get him to make some communes and well we all know what happened. The final reason why The Ranch disaster occurred was not because Osho gave Sheela and her Gang all the power. The actual situation is more along the lines that Sheela and her Gang took the reins by force - away from Osho and others that were close to him. This last issue is important to understand. This is what has happened with the taking over of the inner-circle by Jayesh and Amrito and their Gang. The transition into the resort model of operation is considered appealing to a group that can be categorized generally as being mind-orientated, non-devotional, individualistic, and Westernized. The people that have been forced out of the inner-circle, the Pune resort, and (OIF) publishing, are generally described as being heart-orientated, devotional, holistic, and Easternized. This is considered by many to be Osho’s great last device: the Master creates two or more hubs that oppose each to create a symbiotic relationship. This is problematic for two reasons. Firstly this is not what Osho actually created. The inner-circle itself, as with the Pune 2 Ashram, was comprised of a wide variety of personalities. This diversity of interests reflected as much as is practically possible the scope of who Osho was and what he really was on about. The break-down of the inner-circle was not Osho’s creation, and this leads to the second problem. The second problem is that the unfolding creation of the resort has come out of Jayesh, Amrito, and the Gang exercising their authority by force, to the exclusion of those who dare to disagree. The Ranch failed in large part because of the way Sheela and others forced their way into power. This tendency to domineer at any cost means that the motive towards assuming responsibility is not with good intent. So the result is that the decisions and actions undertaken by the authorities at Pune resort (as with at The Ranch) cannot create a harmonious space, and if left unchecked can become dangerously harmful (as I and others argue it already has). Osho did not document or formalise the manner in which the political system he started should work. He gave it a scope, a practical rather than spiritual mandate. Everything for the healthy functioning of the system was in place, just not formalised. It was just up to the individuals in the inner-circle to govern by consensus, and to be open and responsive to Osho’s people and their views. This is Osho’s pattern. He creates something and then gives people the freedom to either make something of it and grow at the same, or destroy it and harm others at the same time. Of course it is also partly because of his inability to understand the simple practical necessities that are required for an organization to function. So we have it that the current dichotomy is not a symbiosis at all. The landscape has been turned into a battle ground. Further, the (supposedly) main-stream Osho movement is not a healthy movement in itself. It has the basic features that can create what might be a Masters device of juxtaposing difference personality types. However this is not the case. Yes the basic features are there, but the quality is not. This is why if you come for a few weeks you may be satisfied. If you come back again a few times or stay for a while that is likely to change significantly. Perhaps it is worthwhile to create two or more separate styles of Osho. Whether this happens is not relevant to the overall issue of Osho’s legacy, including his discourse, his words, his books, and his Pune place. This is because he left his legacy as a unity, with noone in the inner-circle given the power to override this. So the creation of an apparent Master’s device has actually come out of lust for power rather than the silence of existence. This can only ever be a recipe for disaster. This is also why status quo is not an option. Reconciliation of course is an option to be considered. If however those that have committed wrongs get rewarded for the harmful efforts this will only reinforce their deeply errant psychological make up. The institution of a guiding constitution with checks and balances will be a positive. Yet it can only ever counter the unethical forces that have not been addressed. This creates an unhealthy dynamic of tension which means that other people in positions of responsibility will always feel and be in tension. The same is for the community as a whole. This is why the issue of wrongful conduct needs to be explored and addressed fully before the Osho movement can hope to move forward.
Vote for Change.
http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com
what imeant by extension is that the way the inner circle operates in practical matters is exactly the same way osho operated in hose matters. they have not improve them… just kept doing what he was doing.
I am not defending anyone. I am stating a fact. the manipulative way to do things comes from the master himself. that is what i meant.
everybody…more you get engaged with rajneesh swami you help him indirectly. That is exactly what he wants, to create some discussions pro and against him and raise his profile. Best to ignore him totally and move on with better topics.
Let fools be fools and if other fools want to follow fools- let it be.
Why is Lovebaba Harideva looking for new photos of Jayesh, Amrito etc.?
Yes Anthony you are right. What was I thinking. Of course in the matters of the spirit Osho was contradictory, confusing and manipulative. For example the historic facts never mattered to Osho. What mattered was how they best fitted in the moment to create a story that raised the consciousness of humanity. It did not matter that he would twist an historic situation to highlight a point, and then later on use the same or similar historic situation to tell a completely different and maybe even contradictory story. The ultimate truth was Osho’s concern, not mundane truth. Here I was thinking the ‘extension’ meant changing Osho’s vision stuff. I was wrong on this count.
Obviously, as you so kindly point out, it really is utterly impossible for anyone to engage in Osho’s vision stuff: because he was just so contradictory and manipulative. So obviously Jayesh, Amrito, and the Gang are not trying to mess with the big stuff. They must only be extending the practical endeavours of Osho. Of course I was wrong here too. As you say, it is a simple fact that they are just doing the exact same practical stuff that Osho did. Obviously the simple fact that Osho never bothered much about practical affairs is irrelevant. It is for sure also irrelevant that by the nature of being practical it is not possible to simple do exactly as Osho has done. The practical world changes and the practical decisions need to reflect this. However as you so kindly point out this is somehow all irrelevant.
Jayesh and Amrito would never have dared to try and tinker with the convoluted and weird mystical map that Osho left about the unchanging and eternal. They have just been carbon copying all the practical stuff exactly as Osho did. What was I thinking.
Yahoo
Abhay
Dear Kranti
I do not know why Rajnesh speaks in favor or against Osho. I can not read Rajneesh no-mind state. Rajneesh is the right person to answer this question.
Personally, I do not agree with all statements of Rajneesh on Osho. it hurts.
But at the same time these statements of Rajneesh have some truth also and till now no one is able to answer these questions of Rajneesh.
Have you come across any nice answer to the clear issues raised by Swami Rajneesh???
Kranti, truth needs no support. Whereas lies needs the support of continous lying.
Rajneesh is one man and raising some important burning issues related with Osho Sannyas world.
Can any one answer them here?
Two things arise from this utter silence regarding Rajneesh’s questions
1) the questions raised by Rajneesh are valid and we can not simply stay silent about them and we need to take some action
2) Questions raised by Rajneesh are false but no one can answer them as they are logically correct
- then it proves that at least Rajneesh is an Intelluctual Giant and not retarded as his opponent calls him.
Think…..
Either Rajneesh questions are right
OR Rajneesh is at least intelluctually giant
Or BOTH… I think, Rajneesh is an intelluctual giant, a courageous buddha raising valid questions about Osho Sannyas world which need to be answered.
Actually every Sannyasins should ask these questions, including you Kranti
love
amitabh
What is the practical reason for the banning of so many sannyasins? How on practical grounds can any sannyasin be banned if they have not interfered in the life of anyone else? How can a musician be banned on practical grounds for issues to do with devotional songs? How can a musician be banned on practical grounds for singing songs to another (living) Master? How, on practical grounds can sannyasin group leaders be restricted because they visited a living Master? How can sannyasins be banned on practical grounds for telling the truth in an affidavit? How can sannyasins be banned on practical grounds for not signing a letter of understanding? How, on practical grounds, can centres be influenced in whom they allow to visit their centre – and in what capacity? How on practical grounds can Osho’s spoken word be edited – by omission and addition? How on practical grounds can the pagoda be demolished – especially when the Pune Municipal Council was the very authority that put a stop to it? This banning practice is a scam and so is everything else. The reasons for practices along the lines of the above have been documented and clearly have a spiritual basis for decisions taken. In the practice of restricting the freedom of sannyasins, including banning them, the inner-circle, Pune management, and OIF have taken decisions beyond their practical mandate. They have even gone so far as to justify their decisions by providing a spiritual interpretation of Osho for this very purpose. This is clear proof of their operating outside their domain of authority and responsibility.
Yes Amitabh it is quite interesting that a bunch of retarded buffoons has outwitted Osho’s wisest disciples (baboons) and their proxies. Surely it is not so that the buffoons are actually intelligent. The other issue is whether they (the buffoons) are, as you say, just brilliants sophists: they can win any debate without regard for the truth. What if they are not only are brilliant sophists, but also speak the truth. What if Osho’s supposed wisest disciples are actually a bunch of baboons full of lies? I, like you, also wait eagerly for a response that is not a psychological strategy to essentially avoid the obvious questions, facts, arguments, and conclusions.
Yahoo
Abhay
Do I have to explain everything to you bunch of buffoons? Jayesh, Amrito, and the Gang are just heart-orientated devotional people like Ramakrishna. Cannot you feel their immense love? Ha Ha Ha….What a joke!!!
Finally heere we have some light
Harri Om , Hari Om
Abhay, Yahoo Yahoo
Amitabh, Amitabh
Glad to see a clear strong and focused discussion and all single pointed pinned down the issues
This is the Way of the Buddha warriors looking for the Truth and the Way foward into the Light.
And again i say that Rajneesh issues need to be answered by the Inner Circle who have run away.
Amrito reply to Critics is a Bogus story as Amrito never ever replied to anyone and is hiding behind others
Anurag
Dear Anurag
I think, Amrito is not hiding behind others
but Amtiro is riding on the stupdity of our own Sannyasins who do not raise their voice againt inner circle.
By not raising our voice we are encouraging the inner circle to continue with their mistakes.
Inner circle is not the only one to blame. Other side of story is that we all are responsible for the present mess in Osho Sannyas world.
Sannyasins who do not raise voice against inner circle are also culprits.
Lack of unity on Sincere Sannyasins side is a bigger threat than the inner circle.
I urge all mature and sincere Sannyasins to raise their voice and get united forgetting their personal differences.
love
amitabh
Sw Amitabh
Thanks for accepting that few of those statements hurts you.. It hurt me immensely as i see them as personal interpretaions of rajneesh
But we can not hide behind ‘ Rajneesh No - Mind ‘ state and avoid stating the obivious
If we can not know what is Rajnessh No - Mind there is no way Rajneesh can the No Mind behind Osho ( And you know the big that No Mind must have been )
You say
” 1) the questions raised by Rajneesh are valid and we can not simply stay silent about them and we need to take some action
2) Questions raised by Rajneesh are false but no one can answer them as they are logically correct
We are not beinng silent ..We are only trying to see if they are valid ..
To me they dont seem to be valid ..Infact as Anand said i sonehow feel rajneesh is good in getting attention..And tahst what he is trying to do by saying so many things against Osho
Infact his outer imitations of trying to be like Osho is nothing compared to the ‘ Mind ‘ devices he is using to get people. Osho attacked all established set ups to get the attention of people.. Osho has done it all.. He didnt leave much to do for anyone as far as destablising our mental structures..
What is left for Rajnessh ?
So he asked himself .. ne need something bigger than what Osho did to get the attention of Osho sannyasins
So this is the device ‘ Attack Osho himself to target one section of people and Attack Inner Circle to target the sannyasins who have disatisfaction against Inner Circle
So it seems to be a Master Strategy - To target two segmenst of people
Ofcourse I will not dare to say he is doing it with bad intentions.. He might have convinced himself that this is what the the world needs … Very much possible..
So If somone is alright with such a device let them be with Rajneesh .. So be it..
But personally i dont need to fall for such a device..It will amount to me getting programmed from someone again.. osho has deprogrammed us so much.. I am not going to let anyone program me no matter how big that inttellectual giant is
Infact I was shocked to see one of Abay’s psost which is very highly concious way of looking at things.. i was stunned by that post which was a reply to anthony.. Hope it is not a stunt and he meant it.. If he meant it the anwers for your questions are in Abhay’s post
Abhay
I am stunned
Did you mean what you wrote in the the post above
If YES it changes the landscape of Osho sannaysins ..the line of thinking … to start with this forum..
” Yes Anthony you are right. What was I thinking. Of course in the matters of the spirit Osho was contradictory, confusing and manipulative. For example the historic facts never mattered to Osho. What mattered was how they best fitted in the moment to create a story that raised the consciousness of humanity. It did not matter that he would twist an historic situation to highlight a point, and then later on use the same or similar historic situation to tell a completely different and maybe even contradictory story. The ultimate truth was Osho’s concern, not mundane truth. Here I was thinking the ‘extension’ meant changing Osho’s vision stuff. I was wrong on this count.
Obviously, as you so kindly point out, it really is utterly impossible for anyone to engage in Osho’s vision stuff: because he was just so contradictory and manipulative. So obviously Jayesh, Amrito, and the Gang are not trying to mess with the big stuff. They must only be extending the practical endeavours of Osho. Of course I was wrong here too. As you say, it is a simple fact that they are just doing the exact same practical stuff that Osho did. Obviously the simple fact that Osho never bothered much about practical affairs is irrelevant. It is for sure also irrelevant that by the nature of being practical it is not possible to simple do exactly as Osho has done. The practical world changes and the practical decisions need to reflect this. However as you so kindly point out this is somehow all irrelevant.
Jayesh and Amrito would never have dared to try and tinker with the convoluted and weird mystical map that Osho left about the unchanging and eternal. They have just been carbon copying all the practical stuff exactly as Osho did. What was I thinking. “
In a way Sw Anurag is right .. I have a feeling this is getting REAL stuff.. Lets be clear and concious here. We all get hold of something / understanding which can be a beautiful beginning.. There will be few give & takes..
Dear Kranti
I think minor clarification is needed on my part.
Swami Rajneesh statements hurts because what ever Rajneesh is stating is true.. Truth hurts.
Deep down every one knows that what rajneesh is saying is right but many people do not want to see the truth as it hurts.. truth hurts very badly..
But I am more hurt to see that many genuine sannyasins of Osho have betrayed their master by not raising their voice.
I am not counting those sannyasins as genuine who raise their voice only when they get banned.
These sannyasins who get banned and then after raise voice are more concerned with their personal gains than with Osho.
Most of the time in this discussion we are hitting at the inner circle… I accept they are doing wrong.. but what about the responsibility of silent genuine sannyasins… Are not they also responsible for the present mess???..
there are many silent readers in this forum and if they do not raise their voice then I count them among Judas of Osho world
when sun appears darkness disappears on its own.
If Sannyasins like Rajneesh, Bhrama vedant, Arun etc appears on the front scene then inner circle will disappear on its own.
We have to bring more light in to remove the darkness..
We need to support these sincere Sannyasins of Osho and let the movement start flousihing again
love
amitabh
Dear Sannyasins
I feel we need to raise issues regarding the mistakes of Inner circle
and at the same time we should support each other and share information about genuine sannyasins of Osho.
Thats one of the reason i write in favor of Rajneesh, Anand Arun, Brahma vedand etc
If genuine sannyasins are united then more than half the problem will be solved.
love
amitabh
I am sorry Swami Amitabh
I have completely opposite views about Sw Rajnessh and Inner Circle..
In short I feel Sw rajnessh is raising voice only to get attention with or without good inetnetions and Inner Circle has problems to get sannyasin acceptance on prcatical decisions.. I sincerely think they have not harmed Osho vision because there is no such thing as Osho vision.. Osho never had crealy defined Vision .. I persoanlly struggled with this for some time and arrived at an understanding that all He wanted was us to realize the value Celebrating and living life moment and moment..
Rest of the stuff is Commentary..Contextual..devices..His games…
If Abahy did mean what he said then it CAN be the starting point for healthy discussions. It puts to rest few unhealthy views and gives a platform for discussion. Somehow he stumbled upon that . If NOT we are all back to square one .. I dont see a way out..
‘ Avoid those pretenders who decide for you; take the reins in your own hands.
You have to decide. In fact, in that very decisiveness, your soul is born.
When others decide for you, your soul remains asleep and dull.
When you start deciding on your own, a sharpness arises. ” - Osho
My experience as a sannyasin has been invalidated so many times in the past years… what’s one more time goin’ to change?
genuine… not genuine… What!?!
Who’s mind is judging this time?
Count me out.
No one has my permission to speak for me.
What a sixer from Osho-
‘ Avoid those pretenders who decide for you; take the reins in your own hands.
You have to decide. In fact, in that very decisiveness, your soul is born.
When others decide for you, your soul remains asleep and dull.
When you start deciding on your own, a sharpness arises. ” - Osho
Neo priests must go home.
17, Koregaon Park is for His people. The heart and soul of sannyas energy will develop a collective mind of its own for day to day adminstraion aftre taking into consideration, inspirations of old and new seekers on His chartered path.
As i have mentioned before, J&A’s one sided and arbitrary decisions and high headedness are one extreme, Rajneesh’s fire and thousands of bleeding hearts with him are another extreme. Inbetween is lost the golden treasure.
A communist cadre asked the old man, ” Are you praying to God?”
“Yes”
exactly the way, you were doing during the times of Tsar?
“Yes”
“Did it help?” satires the cadre.
“yes, have you forgotten what happened with him”,smiles the old man
the desperately daft devotee-demanding dick-chopping doppelganger and his dunderheaded disciples are certainly believers in oscar wilde`s famous critique of celebrity:
“there is only one thing worse than being talked about
and that is not being talked about”
let them amass their constituency amongst the ex-inmates of lithuanian electro-shock hospitals, and cow-loving neo-shiv-sena sannyasins and spiritual bovver-boys who need to let ff a bit of steam.
it`s ok.
it takes all sorts to fill a world.
“…even if I leave the body I am not going to leave my sannyasins. I will be as much available as I am right now. But the only thing to remember is — are you available to me?
I am available to you, and I will remain as available forever. If you are available to me then there is no need to be afraid, then a link exists.
And with my sannyasins I am individually linked. It is not a question that you belong to an organization, it is not an organization at all. It is a personal relationship, it is a love affair.
If you are open to me, even if this body disappears, it is not going to make any difference. I will be available to you.
Tell him that he need not be afraid. He can remain in trust and in love.”
back to the original thread about celebration.
i am surprised that it has been left to me to come up with an osho quote to sum it all up.
it says
that`s my whole teaching,celebration,not worship but celebration.when you worship,you start making hierarchy,the lower and the higher.when you worship,you put one thing on top of another thing,something becomes sacred,something profane….
part of you becomes evil and part holy and then there is constant conflict and all joy is lost.
celebration is a totally different dimension.
when you celebrate,you celebrate all,you dont divide.
for a celebrator,drinking tea is as beautiful as prayer.the church,the temple,the pub,the mosque are all one.
making love to a woman or praying to a god is the same.
that is what sannyas is all about.
it is a celebration,not a worship.
and celebrate in your own way because celebration cannot have any form.
that`s my message,
maybe he was just telling some old hippies what they wanted to hear….
who knows/
but still,it doesn`t sound like an incitement to cut baboons` dicks off to me….
- DIscipline of Transcendence, Vol#1 , Ch#6 , Q#5
Love and Trust….
Dear Garimo
No one is speaking on ur behalf
In fact, I was asking that genuine people should raise their voice and speak for themselves.
If genuine Sannyasins do not want to speak and remain silent. Then should accept whatsoever Amrito and party is doing.
Every decision has its consequences.
I am stating a simple fact… which is very clear.
If genuine Sannyasins do not stand up then the dictatorship of inner circle will continue like this.
and I count genuine sannyasins more responsible for this than the inner circle…
it is the genuine sannyasins who are indirectly giving power in the hands of inner circle.
Now it is up to them to decide whether they want to speak for themselves, for their rights and for the fellow travellers or not?
but if they do not speak then credit goes to them for betraying their master.
If I am not clear then i try once more…
Old generation of Osho Sannyasins have betrayed their master and they owe a lot to new generation.
I had raised this issue2 years ago also in YahooGroups and no one liked it and many old sannyasins were hurt.
but this is a fact.. because of old sannyasins stupdity new generation is paying the price for their mistakes.
Least they can do now is to speak up against inner circle, act consciously and get united
love
amitabh
Dear Garimo
No one is speaking on ur behalf
In fact, I was asking that genuine people should raise their voice and speak for themselves.
If genuine Sannyasins do not want to speak and remain silent. Then should accept whatsoever Amrito and party is doing.
Every decision has its consequences.
I am stating a simple fact… which is very clear.
If genuine Sannyasins do not stand up then the dictatorship of inner circle will continue like this.
and I count genuine sannyasins more responsible for this than the inner circle…
it is the genuine sannyasins who are indirectly giving power in the hands of inner circle.
Now it is up to them to decide whether they want to speak for themselves, for their rights and for the fellow travellers or not?
but if they do not speak then credit goes to them for betraying their master.
If I am not clear then i try once more…
Old generation of Osho Sannyasins have betrayed their master and they owe a lot to new generation.
I had raised this issue2 years ago also in YahooGroups and no one liked it and many old sannyasins were hurt.
but this is a fact.. because of old sannyasins stupdity new generation is paying the price for their mistakes.
Least they can do now is to speak up against inner circle, act consciously and get united
love
amitabh
” because of old sannyasins stupdity new generation is paying the price for their mistakes.”
this si what Garimo posted against Amitabh
I dont think new sannyasins are paying any price..they are blissfully unaware of what ‘ should have been ‘ the case
they just get attracted to His books and discourses and some of them manage to get to a meditation center..thats it..
If you really look athe issues the issues had been for old sannyaisns ( and for some in-betweens like me ) more than anything else..
Frank..You surprised me with a Osho quote.. I dont think he said that to those hippies only.. He was saying the samething in different ways to all..all those 30plus years .. Thats my understanding ofcourse..
unless of course,celebration all includes celebrating the urge to cut baboons dicks off as just another part of the whole to be celebrated….
ah.i like a nice bit of reducto ad absurdum before breakfast.
or maybe its just my mind playing up.
i must do dynamic or
meditate more or
get some lectures from
egghead o`toole
or subscribe to the master`s “vision”
ooops,back to square one.
” because of old sannyasins stupdity new generation is paying the price for their mistakes.”
New Generation will not pay the price, if they are smart enough to look under the masks of the old ones.
Those who are preachig walk your walk alone, must be asked how many steps in their life they have walked alone.
For example, all those who swear by their proximity with Osho, must be asked cutting edge questions.
The Cat who wants to go to Haj must be asked how many mouses she has eaten on the way.
Bascially there is no need to ask the questions, if you are a woman till 30+
Spend a week in the resort, and see how the old Swamis are telling the stories and adventures with Osho, and few hours later you will see, Zen is another name for a dick!
and Old Mas?
As i have seen, they are doing blissfully Vipasana and feeling thankful that manopause period went smoothly, because of meditation, and with the grace of Osho they are still in the ashram instead of old people’s home.
My friends. I am signing out for a while. I am a bit bored and I feel the discussion has become circular to an extend that no matter what arguments we put out , obviously, each one of us will remain in its own ideas. So, it makes no sense to keep on repeating them for ever… i am bored too.
I think the ashram, the resort is the most beautiful place on earth. It is the place that I most want to be after all these years.
It has a quality that for me no other place has. take away the pictures, ban the devotional songs, dismantle the pagoda, … all irrelevant. I have stated the pints where I am not so groovy about, but over all I respect and admire the work of the inner circle.
More over, every time I am there the place is thriving with celebration,. laughter and meditation . as it has always been. And it is Osho´s place, with all its beauty. full of people every time I am there. My heart is with the ashram, the resort or whatever name you want to give it.
If people do not feel identified with the ways things are over there, there are plenty of places to go and live your sannyas and personal awareness process the way it suits you.
Even if you want second- hand osho´s you have “rajneesh the dick cutter”. Not my trip… but as Osho once said “you need false masters, because otherwise , what are you going to do with false disciples… where can they go?”
So that is my standing point: sannyas is a loose gathering of individuals, let those individuals go and gather wherever they feel at home.
“Marble kissing” is not my trip. neither is bhajans, or third rate masters. If they are banned… even better, so i do not have to see those people around.
A big kiss to everybody.. and we will meet again …some,sunny day.
if these old swamis are still recounting their “autobiography of a yogi-dick”
then we need the doppelganger to threaten the chopping.
its a perfect harmony.
yin/yang thing
what goes up must come down.
for sure.
I’m far away, both geographically and internally, from this political battleground and frankly, have little interest in the arguments right now…
But regarding this guy Osho Rajneesh…The very fact of him carrying this name and resembling the ‘original’ Osho is, to me, more than just ’suspect’, it virtually disqualifies him from being taken seriously, before I even bother to find out what he’s on about.
Just sounds like a blindingly obvious case of pseudo-spiritual/political opportunism…
(Just bracing myself for the inevitable angry onslaught from his supporters…) (LOL)
I think it is a blessing in disguise for woman seekers on the path with Osho that Viagara is only for the men!
So the great Victors can still indulge in the carnal delights and feel young with borrowed energy, on the other side Ma’s can do sincere meditation.
Even when one sees the scene of neo satsang givers coming from the Osho school. Woman teachers are doing their work more sincerely while the men are happily amazing wealth.
As per now, there is only one in the market whose family worth is said to be in billions; he can play Obama for the gallery.
satyadeva,
get your jockstrap and ball-box on quickly if you wanna keep your sweetmeats.
Mind you, good point made by Frank there….
And Shanti, yours sounds a relatively sane voice to me too…
Just one thing:
You say,” I have stated the pints where I am not so groovy about….”
Glad to hear you were able to make an effective complaint about the dreadful beer served up at the ashram pub…And you weren’t excommunicated?
Are the powers-that-be mellowing, one wonders?!
Sounds like it….
Cheers!
Jockstrap and ball-box on, captain!
Pads and gloves to follow…
Helmet if they take the new ball…
By God, I hope we don’t lose our ‘middle wickets’ before close of play!
” if these old swamis are still recounting their “autobiography of a yogi-dick”
then we need the doppelganger to threaten the chopping.
its a perfect harmony.
yin/yang thing
what goes up must come down.
for sure.”
Wish i have Franks creativity.. Frank you make feel inferior..
dont feel inferior kranti.
you still have your dick.
me,i`ve been master-baiting and guru-baiting for so long,i`ve had it kicked,hacked,battered,excommunicated shaken and stirred and now finally its due to be chopped…..
My luck hasnt run out as i havent met any cutting edge masters so far directly ..
Soon people will go to meditation centers with all the protection available like Jockstrap and ball-box & what not.. You never what will be justified in the name of ZEN..
Wondering Bodhidharma hiself lasted very long with full anatomy..
satya deva,
and watch out or your third man might end up as a short leg.
” watch out or your third man might end up as a short leg”
Thats will be Half Zen..not full treatment
Thinking about Chopping , Rasputin lost it when they killed him.. Heard someone ( female sannyasin ) preserved it ..Dont know whether it was real..
re…bodhidharma and body-parts.
according to osho,as posted in a recent thread here on sannyas news,the reason,so enigmatic in zen,that bodhidharma went to china was in fact because the indians had no sense of humour and couldn`t get to grips with his crazy,confrontational stand-up show……..
so having tried his stand-up routine in the comedy clubs of beijing,honk kong and shanghai,with painfully little success,getting booed off everywhere–they just thought he was another crazy brown guy-bodhidharma retired to a cave to sulk.
seven years later some bright spark chopped his own dick off and lobbed it into the cave.
bodhidharma,who was having a cup of tea,had already chopped his own eyelids off,thought this was the best routine he had ever seen.
hard core martial arts zen-chopping was born that day.
–ask oshobob.but he may not know the true story….
he only knows the official story which says it was a “hand”.
frank // Oct 22, 2009 at 3:02 pm
satya deva,
and watch out or your third man might end up as a short leg.
Kranti // Oct 22, 2009 at 3:04 pm
” watch out or your third man might end up as a short leg”
Thats will be Half Zen..not full treatment
I’ll make sure I’m at cover point, I’m rather fond of my long leg (It’s a fine leg)!
Mmm…perhaps I’ll play safe with an extra cover….
Oshobob, Please let us know all the ‘ facts ‘ of the case
Saw a photo of Oshobob standing infront of Bodhidharma’ house or something..He knows for sure all the facts..
Nice to see all these cricketing terms..They are coming in handy..
” In one legend, Bodhidharma refused to resume teaching until his would-be student, Dazu Huike, who had kept vigil for weeks in the deep snow outside of the monastery, cut off his own right arm to demonstrate sincerity.”
Only the disciples lose body parts..Masters always seem to escape.. they dont seem to lose even when they are disciples..
can you imagine one of the satsang meetings of those zen days with all these guys sitting around with bits missing,crutches,eyepatches etc.
–they would have needed wheelchair access for sure.
there was that one when the kid had his “finger”sliced off,too.
one guy was beaten to death for looking at some sexy chick who was walking past.
can you imagine that at the osho ashram?
the place would have been a morgue.
and you are right,kranti,the masters always seemed to get away with it.everything in full working order.
amazing.
And it also seems some disciples are in such a hurry to reach master status only protect anatomy..who cares about enlightenment..let me become a master so taht i dont have to lose anything approach.. you would have seen real cases
” with all these guys sitting around with bits missing,crutches,eyepatches etc ”
the more we visualize that the more it sound scary..
And to see that those poor guys managing pune being termed as criminals and violent etc etc.. Its really bad..
The maximum ZEN treatment / scare is getting a broomstick shown at you and we call that violence?
We have come a long way in civilization
I mean ZENlization
Just for consolation i got one ,
That guy Dazu Huike who lost the hand became a master later..
yes,he got the haiku
“what is the sound of one hand clapping?”
exactly right.
do you guys really think you’re going to lure me into this trap…? not a chance. good try though.
ummm, Where did I say that? I don’t remember… what was I talking about? I must be getting old…
>>>” because of old sannyasins stupdity new generation is paying the price for their mistakes.”
>>>>this si what Garimo posted against Amitabh
To correct once again the mistaken posters on this forum who are pissing and moaning continually about the destruction of Osho’s “pagoda” — Osho never had a pagoda. So it could never have been destroyed. Maybe it’s just like his “vision.”
He had a podium — that’s the green marble dais where he spoke his discourses.
He had/has a samadhi — that’s where the urn of his ashes supposedly are.
Bodhidharma had a pagoda — still does, by the way. It’s in China.
Think that is ‘ Hakuin Ekaku’ both are same?
” this si what Garimo posted against Amitabh”
Garimo..Thats was poor poor english from me.. I wanted to say garimo doesnt like people talking on behalf of others.. So I asked Amitabh not to say anything on behalf of new sannyasins.. Sorry for confusing you
OK.. Here we go !!
” Osho never had a pagoda ”
Oshobob.. Going by your new active meditation stages you should have said this in a new thread..
Now that you have brough it out let us see the respponses ( Reactions )
” Bodhidharma had a pagoda — still does, by the way. It’s in China.”
Oshobob.. Since you were there we thought you have few facts about who lost which body part..Frank had a suspicion that it was not a ‘ hand ‘
So He had a podium.. Part of that is left..there is an alternative hi-fi auditorium ,
Osho samadhi is beautifully intact
He never had a ‘ pagoda ‘
Even the Rolls is there
So what is the problem..Nothing is missing
( Let us put on protective gears and wait )
first…
in the states, cricket is an insect that lives in the grass and chirps at night — that’s it. americans play football, and they wear protective gear for it. it is not soccer. the ball is not round.
Hakuin Ekaku is not Eka. Hakuin was a Jap.
Eka is the Japanese pronunciation of Huike. He was the one-armed man from China, who was the 2nd Patriarch of Zen, Bodhidharma’s top disciple.
Kranti is probably Parmartha.
frank is probably Parmartha.
and Paritosh is probably not dead.
I requested Parmartha to publish few threads and he did also.. We exchange mails… So me and Parmartha are not the same..
yeah, right Kranti….
and i exchanged some emails with Osho and he told me what his Mandate currently is, so therefore me and Osho are two different people. And one thing he said to me was that the sannyasnews posters should worry less about the Mandate and put their attention more on getting a Womandate — that would solve a lot of the current problems, and you wouldn’t be focusing so much on lost Bodhi-parts and such nonsense…
Osho had lot of problems with Womandate.. thats is the reason he gave Mandate - We need to check with Anurag and Amitabh.. I still dont get what that mandate stuff was..
i don`t think the second zen patriarch was serious at all.
sounds like he was just having a bit of `armless fun.
that was ‘ilarious frank…
Prem Abhay………..Your comments are very childish, with a little knowledge on Master Osho………
when you say that He was manipulative and contradictory……If you feel yourself, you know better than Osho……..then, why you have been reading and listening Osho………
and you also start some business organization in religion, like many faque gurus are working in the market like counterfeit coins, which looks more attractive and charming than the original.
It is never too late man, start, and let us see after a decade how many people will follow to listen you………may be your followers are……..your wife and children……..and may not they too be……..
Try your luck………who stops you to jump into this business……….Start immediately,
Read and listen Osho, and vomit on people, as other Gurus are doing and speaking …..mixing Management, History, Social life and charming TV news.
.
“your comments are….guru…vomit…little knowledge”
here we go again.
it`s sunni-asins
versus
oshi-ites time again
” my podium is bigger than your podium.”
“but my pagoda is bigger than your pagoda”
“pull it down”
“chop it off”
`that`ll teach you…”
etc etc…
Good comment Chinmaya. We all could do with a little more listening to Osho and a little less projecting our egos and ‘wit’ — least we turn into a Ludwig ‘Wit’-genstein or something…
On these lines, just a note…
The 2nd Chinese Zen Patriarch, Huike (the one with only one ‘arm), not only was the disciple and successor of Bodhidharma, he was the Zen master of the 3rd Chinese Patriarch, none other than Sengcan, who the Japs mispronounce as ‘Sosan’
Osho has full discourse series on both of these Zen bookends sandwiching Huike:
Bodhidharma: The Greatest Zen Master
and,
Hsin Hsin Ming: The Book of Nothing, talks on the Faith-Mind Sutras of Sosan.
The full Bodhidharma series of audio mp3’s are now available on my website for free listening, and the Sosan series will be very up shortly.
that should be “up, very shortly” for the Hsin Hsin Ming Osho discourses. Maybe by tomorrow.
hey oshobob,
seems like you fell into the honey trap after all.
good.
now everybody can have a bit of harmless fun reading osho instead of fighting about his “mandate”
keep up the good work.
oshobob,
osho`s talks about bodhidharma going to china because people were more receptive to humour of chuang tsu etc.
but bodhidharma and his guys dont in all honesty sound like a barrel of laughs,they are prety rough guys.there`s a lot of violence in the stories.
there is no violence in chang tsu lao-tsu and others
and reading chuang-tsu particularly,as well as other chinese literature,there is obviously a very subtle and developed sense of humour at work.
do the two strands meet?
they seem a bit apart to me.
what do you think?
Shanti,
If you read this, please answer the points. because this discussion is between two sannyasins who took sannyas in the same year 1984, are fully in love with 17, koregaon park and have allergy to all the gurus other than Osho.
Shanti-
I think the ashram, the resort is the most beautiful place on earth. It is the place that I most want to be after all these years.
It has a quality that for me no other place has.
Shantam-Agreed fully
Shanti-
take away the pictures, ban the devotional songs, dismantle the pagoda, … all irrelevant.
Shantam-
For me personally it is also irrelevant.That is why i have been hundreds of times in the Osho Auditorium for white robe(Evening meeting in Resort terminology)
Now the question comes, Is this irrelevant for majority of sannyasins.?
Just the other day i have heard from Him something like,” The best teacher addresses to the last in class.”
Why cannot involve management all the people.
Shanti-
but over all I respect and admire the work of the inner circle.
Shantam-
Is inner cricle still exist. can you tell the names of just 10 of its memebrs. As per my knowledge, there is a management committee, hand picked by Big boss.
Shanti-
“Marble kissing” is not my trip. neither is bhajans.
Shantam- Marble kissing is also not my trip, neither Bhajans nor disco.
Anthony had send me the piece of podium marble. It was a long journey for this green marble and within few minutes with me and it was in a nice lake as its final resting place.
But why to reject those people who are nourished by this.
For example when Osho created the restaurant for vegetarian and meat eaters both. Why to take the non veg food away.
It is a choice of freedom and also of tradition.
Intelligence is required the way restaurants are doing. Smokers have their own area, non smokers have their own.
People who like to go to Kirtan, they go to Kirtan, those who like to go to disco, they go disco.
Why it cannot be like a university with hundreds of faculties. Just because few don’t like chemistry, there is no need to close the chemistry department.
I think Osho envisioned His place like this.
You are right Frank
See this definition in wikipedia
” Throughout Buddhist art, Bodhidharma is depicted as a rather ill-tempered, profusely bearded and wide-eyed barbarian. He is described as “The Blue-Eyed Barbarian……in Chinese texts.”
Chinmaya
Osho used lot of devices ..one thing is talking according to context.. an usning historical facts in a manner which suited the questioner.. he himself openly admitted that he used the language / masters of other paths just to get attention.. Thats what Anthony and Abhay meany by Osho maniplating..Not in a derogatory sense..Osho had his way. We will all love Osho because of that only..Thats what differentiated Osho..If he had been a ‘ good old teacher ‘ we wouldnt be talking about him..We woldnt be fighting like this.. some 100 odd disciples will celebrate his birthday and forget ..
I love Osho because
Osho was manipulative and contradictory
Osho openly said we cannot categorize him into any path
Osho said He has no teaching
Osho said he contradicts himself and he has no obligation to anyone to be consistent
Osho used ‘ left hand Tantra ‘
He ddidnt care a damn about relative truth or trying to be honest like a hypocritical teacher.. He converted everything as a device to help the questioner.. So there is nothing wrong or derogatory when we point out those aspects of Osho with Love
But what i will find derogatory is saying Osho was not even aware what he was doing.. He was acting out of poor mans conditioning.. He sucked sannyasin energy , He was money hungry etc etc..
frank, honestly…
it’s such a long, long story, the whole China thing. Once you are caught into it, it is absolutely a honey trap, just like Osho…
and they are interconnected in a million and one ways.
but, if i get started, there’s no end to it really, it is really a vast panoramic mixture of the mundane and the mystical, so odd in an odd way.
The whole Bodhidharma and Zen literature is a very unique story unto itself — such a weird episode in history, maybe that’s why it’s so intriguing. And why Osho spent so much time and energy on it. But it’s a present-day story, though it looks on the surface to be past history.
But as I said, i know you guys are trying to lure me into this, but then we will go walking into the Chinese painting down the small path, disappear, and maybe never come back…so it’s dangerous too…
as i have time i will try to talk about it, what little i know…
Cheers
Oshobob.. I am ready to walk with you.. I need a break from all these conflits..take us for a china ride..If possible let us do it as a thread…Or we can back to that Bodhodharma thread..
But i need to wind up today as it is 1.30 am in the night
Thanks to you and Frank for some lighter stuff and different posts on Bodhidharma..
Kranti
You are putting out your own words and spin here
+++++++++++++++
But what i will find derogatory is saying Osho was not even aware what he was doing.. He was acting out of poor mans conditioning.. He sucked sannyasin energy , He was money hungry etc etc.
++++++++++++++++
Yes Osho did not know what was not even aware of what he was doing is true.
Remember Sheela ?? Did he know what he was doing when he placed Sheela in power and he was meeting her everyday for 4 years and then he simply denies that he did not know anything that was happening on the Ranch ??
Yes Osho is acting out of his poor man’s conditioning is very clear from his actions of amassing
93 rolls royces out of donations and sannyasins money. Each sannyasin sold their homes and donated everything to make the Ranch and there should be accountability for finances of the sannyasins.
Always the rich and powerful got front row seats and those who made financial contributions were given power like Jayesh types.
Osho is not the Only Master for all the sannyasins as these sannyasins have travelled many many lives and also lived with other Masters in the past and are a collective heritage of this Earth from all the Past Buddhas and Enlightened ones.
He placed himself above all Masters
and is the only person in the history of India or the East where hundreds of enlightened Masters have existed to have called himself Bhagwan.
When no one was following him since 1960 in India he realised that it is better to make big news in India by declaring himself to be The Bhagwan.
Even then he was laughed at tlll 1970
and finally in 1974 Mukta managed to buy a small 2 acre house for Bhagwan to settle in poona.
Just see his whole Guru Trip from 1960 - 1970
all these 10 years are hidden from sannyasins.
His only reccords shown is 4 years of Poona 1 days
Few months of talks in of Oregon, and the final
4 years of Poona 2 days.
9 years for all to see and 10 years hidden.
and that too his formative years as a Guru
Why is the Original 10 years hidden when he was an indian Guru promising people that he would awaken them if they surrendered to HIm ??
Have you evven seen thoses days posters and photos of his self promotion ??
Have you seen hundreds of sannyasins prostating before his feet and him smiling with flower garlands blesssing those touching and kissing his feet ?
Pure Guru and Pure Bhagwan trip.
So find all this derogatory or whatever but the fact is that Bhagwan was a Guru and that is why Gurus demanded total surrender and that is why those 93 Rolls Royces were a Guru Trip.
There are enough records to show that Bhagwan
did anything to get money
or the attention of the world stage
Fact is a Fact a
nd as Bhagwan says i call a spade a fucking spade,
So here i call a spade a fucking spade.
Now be hurt and enjoy the truth.
Anurag
Anurag
Are you on facebook?
I will be glad to see your face…
Face behind the words and than words are not just words…
Shantamy. I agree with the possibility of having all the colors available… But It will not happen. The answer is simple. Osho´s path is not about the finger pointing to the moon… it is not about biting that finger. But about the moon. In some moment they had to shift towards the moon. I feel that is what is happening in the ashram now.
I do not care about what is not there anymore. Nor should I care to bring it back to equanimity reasons. But if it comes back it will be the same for me.
However, there are enough places for sannyasins who want finger munching. I am not going to tell anyone that is wrong… their trip. But it was time we started focusing on the moon. I am glad it has happened. I need a place like this. the old story is gone.
What would be good is for every none to look and their own issues in their own private rooms. Not to spread their negativity around - like unhappy children.
Then we should sit the master and watch what is going on.
Just being watching
Bless you all
Sw Deva Ashik
It was about time we grew up wasn´t it?
Kranti I am unsure of what you are saying. Have you read my post carefully. Are you fully aware of the immense sarcasm that it contains?
Swami Amitabh what about the group of sannyasins that raise their voice in favour of the Inner-Circle?
Kranti now I understand your misunderstanding. It is clear that the complexity of Osho’s vision means that it is not clearly defined – to anyone other than him. From this I argue that it is simply impossibly for anyone, including an enlightened Osho sannyasin, to fully understand and make decisions in relation to this vision. Your (wrong) interpretation is that because the vision is not clear (to you and others) then it really has no reality. This I disagree with. All it means is that noone, especially the Inner-Circle or Pune resort management can tinker with this big stuff. All they can do is make practical decisions with respect to making this vision of Osho available, in all its untouched and pure complexity.
Perhaps you are understanding Osho here at a deeper level. This is along the lines of a popular saying of Osho’s that it is between the lines and between the words that really is the essence of his message: the empty space, the silence, the gaps. If you understand Osho at this level then you would be ready to sit with him in silence. In this case if it were only you he were sitting with he would not have uttered a single word. Nevertheless Osho did and said many fold complicated and contradictory fictions that point to the truth. This is his guide-book for the present and the future humanity. This is his vision. It is a guide-book for dummies to get from darkness to eternity. This however does not mean that the guide-book is about managing the practical affairs of his legacy. Yes it is a practical guide-book in a way, but for each person to make their way through the thicket that is their illusion.
Perhaps you are also beginning to understand another aspect of Osho. In giving you a point of view that is in tune with your beliefs, and then showing you another point of view (maybe even opposing), this has the effect of challenging your beliefs and helps open your mind. In this way your mind matures and drops its limiting beliefs. It is the same with being exposed to different cultures by travelling. It helps to see that your deeply held beliefs (even about God or Allah or Enlightenment), are really only just mental constructs created by your mind. They are just fictions, as is your ego. This is the big joke.
Kranti you say old and some inbetween sannyasins miss the way things should have been, and that new sannyasins are not concerned. You fail to understand that it is the type of old and inbetween sannyasin that is the issue, and that many new sannyasins are of a similar constitution.
Whoever lost money into The Ranch should receive just compensation – including wages plus interest. That should put a little dint in Jayesh’s stock-pile. There should also be class action law suits for all the victims of the Pune resort: broken bones through accidents caused by poor lighting, sickened by the food and water, poisoned by high levels of chlorine and hydrogen peroxide in the food, and mentally victimized and slandered. That should put a little more of a dint in Jayesh’s stock-pile.
Anurag thanks for the facts about Osho’s (Bhagwan’s) earlier years as a buddha (guru).
Yahoo
Abhay
Shanti, Osho is the finger pointing to the moon. Sure it is all really only about the moon, but this does not change Osho’s anatomy. If you want to remove Osho and just leave the moon, then of course moon is everywhere. The thing is if you do this to the Pune resort you are removing the finger (Osho) and leaving the just moon. This is the same as removing a master and leaving just the moon. Following this logic all Masters are useless for pointing to the moon. The point you miss is if it weren’t for the finger pointing you would not have a clue that there was a moon in the first place. If you have transcended all devices that is great. What is not great is if you argue for the removal of such devices (including Osho’s entire finger and the rest of his anatomy) then you are doing a disservice to the rest of the lesser conscious humanity.
Yahoo
Abhay
The way i understand the human mind and its logical and emotional aspects, the present day resort will survive at the most till Jayesh’s life time.
He knows how to rule with the iron fist in a velvet glove, but after him, the thunder majority will turn the place in its original form because the people will prefer the signatures of dead Osho than a dead Jayesh. This is a 100% reality and my common sense forcasting is based on this.
Shanti dear,
life does not ¨provide always what we like.
The people who don’t like something today because they think it is dark also get their turn tomorrow to have the sun light.
The rise of rajneesh and emotional frenzy built on the rage of many has its own reality, and this reality will get its piece of cake too. After all Osho as it is now is a joint venture between all his people.When two polarities are created it becomes meditation to stay in the middle.
Without being part of any group, any tribe (for more than two years i was even doing the secretary work for Neelam and Zareen at the same time and watching the cat fight between two arch rivals)
my heart has made the resolution out of some inner convictions to enter the ashram gates only, when the system is a bit more open, humane and transparent, when the people on the opposite spectrum are also embraced.
And this i have felt without any ill will towards anybody. In my most personal moments,i find me sleeping in Buddha hall or in the Osho Auditorium with same peace and yet with less snoaring (thanks to fisherman’s mint)
This is my Indian way of life too; unity in diversity. When i enjoy the benefits of the western technology and its medical science wonders, i can tell happily to my inner child, when he asks, what India has given to the world. it is about Osho and his immense diversified vision about spirituality and about all of us.
Does it not make western people wonder that how a small country (geographically) like India, allows so many languages, cultures, religions, tribes etc. to live as a beads of a Mala. Osho is a soul personified of this land and culture.
If someone has not read the novel Shantaram, i wish to recommend with folded hands. (Shantaram is not just a book; it is a sojourn, a spiritual journey into life that shows that even the most complex and powerful systems have at their core a simple and beautiful pattern. As a great poet had once said “Simple is the seal of truth, and beauty is the splendour of truth.” Shantaram reinforces one’s belief in those words.)
So my dear, i hope soon we see a day, when we meet inside the ashram gates…it will happen as we are suppose to go for a ashram style date. God bless !
Anurag has misinterpreted a few things about Osho, is way off track in fact (imho).
Too weary this late at night to go into it, except to highlight an elementary factual error:
Poona 1 lasted from early/mid 1974 - 1981, ie 7 years, not 4.
Not too impressive….
I never said anything about removing the finger, abhay, I just said do not munch on it. In the ashram Osho is everywhere as an inspiration and in white robe every night.
Just let us not eat fingers. that is all.
Shantam. if people then reverse things to the old ways, so be it. I am for change all the time. i do not feel attached to any way in particular…My own silence and meditativeness is my home, the rest, just contexts and opportunities.
regarding the ashram date… deal shantamy!
so long for now.
Hey Sw. Anurag, You’re a dick head!!! Back in those days each and every sannyasin knew what they were getting into when they decided to take sannyas. Rolls Royces and all!!! I knew about it, I knew that any money that went to RFI might go to buy another Rolls for Osho, so did every single person. Same with all the sex, drugs, prostitution, and other shady activities. We all knew what the general tone was besides doing our best to be meditative and working towards a higher plane of existence, we still are lowly and pathetic beings but we were a great deal more honest and realistic than other “spiritual” groups. So stop the bullshit puritanical and communistic P.R. Are you actually a sannyasin or are you a Religious Right psyco trying to infiltrate sannyas webs sites? Go back to your populist closet, please!!!!
Abhay: You’re a sucker!! A sucker is born every minute!!! Anurag’s rants are NOT facts at all. Osho’s early years are not hidden. A chump like me knows much of the early years. Back in the late 70’s and early 80’s anyone could find out about Osho’s early years, you could read about them or what I did, was to talk to those who were around him back then. Very Simple. But for lazy and stupid people it’s easier to believe some dumb ass’s fantasies. The more you speak Abhay the dumber you sound!!!!
“…I knew that any money that went to RFI might go to buy…”
Remember the ariplanes that used to fly over dropping zillions of rose pedals during drive by on festival days… What fun was that!?!
Cocolate chip bread at tea time?
Yes, we all knew, as it was made very clear. We were there to support the commune. It was not there to support us.
my god…
now I realize completely the idiocy of Swami Rajneesh and his gang.
He gives the entire sannyas and Osho a black eye and reminds me of a sinister male version of sheela.
Holy shit…why do such idiots grow like poisonous fungus and beautiful trees?
Anurag you are a blatant liar and full of complete shit!!
Rajneesh wants to be a pope and the rest of his flock want to be bishops and nuns!
Uh oh—-i smell a Jesus Re-Run and Rajneesh is playing the part of St. Paul—the one who fucked everything up for Christ.
Hopefully this Rajneesh niche (Raj-niche?) remains transparently stupid the way it is now !
-Amrito
ON* beautiful trees.
and Abhay…
you are such a waste of time to read!!
and like I asked you in the other thread..
How do find so much time to write so much shit?!
Like…do u HAVE A JOB?
You’re posts are complete headaches and waste of electronic space!!
You’re like an unsustainable greenhouse gas effect on this forum sucking away at its natural resources!
AHHHH!!!
Yes Garimo, we were there to support the commune, the commune did support us too!!! I enjoyed every bite of the chocolate chip bread!!! I still can’t find chocolate chip bread anywhere even though I told the basic recipe to several local bakers—too bad–yum yum!!! With a little more proactive and conscious effort of those of us at the ranch, things could have worked out.
Dear Swami Rajneesh, Meera, Prem Abhay, “Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me”. I am happy some people on this thread can see a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Being obsessed with all sorts of things dulls one’s own natural instincts. For Rajneesh, it’s his obsession for taking Osho’s place as chief guru and Emperor of the resort. Prem Abhay’s obsession has been with clean water in a country that’s filled with shitty water. Meera’s obsession with butt-licking Rajneesh hoping to be in rajneesh’s inner circle. Anujrag obsession with Karl Marx and the incorporation of Marxism into the resort’s daily routine. May I recommend a coffee enema for Anurag that I hope reaches his brain, you need a thorough catharsis pal!! My advice for those Ruskies paying preemo rubles for Mr. Nice Guy Populist Rajneesh’s groups. Save your pension money and buy some vodka instead. When you’re good and drunk you’ll realize that what Rajneesh is saying is all gibberish whether one’s drunk or sober. Mozoltov !!!!
Good morning in Europe, happy hussle and bussle of life in India,
For me in the whole discussion, the paragraph below from Shanti makes quite a sense and shows Osho’s style.
Nothing lasts for ever. Change is the only permanancy and we must go on experimenting with different tools till nothing is left.
“if people then reverse things to the old ways, so be it. I am for change all the time. i do not feel attached to any way in particular…My own silence and meditativeness is my home, the rest, just contexts and opportunities”.
Anurag,
Last evening i have got the reply from our fellow traveler Rajneesh, regarding my question about getting the head or 69
Here is the answer to enjoy, feel wow or to do the post martum!
my beloved friend Shantam
ah yes it is you…well well…well…
sorry a very difficult question as the only number i know is 0
i am very weak in maths and cannot count after 7…
so 69 ways to awakening is extremely complicated…
and then i will have to do all these gymnastics twists and huff and puff
also ??
we all know that i can barely manage to even walk !!
the day i drowned into the black hole and imploded into zero…
i lost all track of counting and hufffing and puffing…
too much effort for a lazy man like me…i am bone lazy…
infact i am a loser as i have lost everything and am floating free…
i am simply a zero
no pop star or guru or master…
just an ordainary man living this zero
blissfully dissolved into the grace of my beloved master Osho
now i am not saying that i am celebate…
just a celebrant…celebrating the orgasmic zero…
everything is an orgasm for me…
the sunset the river the flowers the beauty that surrounds me…
all around me is orgasmic dancing light
exploding into orgasm…and bliss….and bliss…bliss…
now for the serious part of your question
i will let you into a secret…
just for a friend…and to help you in your book…
in my earlier days of counting and huffing puffing…
i coined the word ” the hot dog ”
and that is why my friends used to call me ” the hot dog ” !!
( and remember i am the first to use it and is a rajneesh copyright term )
now we all know what is ” a sandwich ”
now…what is ” the hot dog ” ?
One Guy…
Four Chicks…one from each direction
the Guy in the middle is ” the hot dog ”
groovy huh ?? wanna play hot dog ??!!!
always with love a friend and fellow traveller Rajneesh
you want to know how i manage so you can keep it up and going ??
we all know that punjabis have strong parts and their machines are well
oiled !!
Amrito, coming from a fool, and especially coming from a fool with the same name as thee doc, I can only receive your witless comment as a complement.
Just a hint for you Amrito….you say that I am a waste of time to read. Why are you still frustrated? Presumably you are still reading what I have written. Is it that you are incapable of using the scroll function on your computer or do you know that what I write is the truth and that pisses you off? Of course I assume you are not reading this and therefore will not reply. That would not frustrate me in the least.
As far as your analogy goes with global warming and exploitation of natural resources, the pattern of greed or lust for wealth and power and domination that JA&Gang emulate is driving many multi-nationals and countries like China to fuck up the planet for everyone else. Good point Amrito.
Prem Bubbie you are too angry at the world of Osho sannyas to consider having a sense of community. Your anger wants to destroy social relations.
The focus has been on the over-extension of JA&Gang into spiritual matters. How do all the Osho therapists stack up? I would not know because the time that I was ripped of by a bunch of ignorant therapists I was ignorant myself. They convinced me that I was stupid and that they would save me in just few short expensive groups and then sessions and then more groups, and on and on. Of course when I dropped the show I was running away from my problems, and have been ever since. Funny however, I actually feel a whole lot better for it. Swami Rajneesh has raised this issue and I think it deserves much more attention. Of course why would not the pattern from JA&Gang be replicated to the conforming Osho therapists and Osho centres. Interesting thing is though, when you pull the bottom card out from a pyramid of lies, the whole structure falls down in a mess.
Shantam you see the point, and express it well. It is just a shame not enough people do, else the change back to the path rather than the cliff is far off. This is why Shanti misses the point. It is possible to become enlightened in a Chinese gulag in Tibet. However it is much more likely sitting at the feet of the Dalai Lahma (in a monastery in Tibet). Prem Bubbie does not miss the point, but rather blasts it with rage.
Yahoo
Abhay
Beloved Shantam
i thank you for asking this question and letting us have the reply as it now one for ” the books ”
A Wow with Style and Wit here
for Frank and Oshobob
this ” hot dog ” is a ” real hot dog ”
What a crisp and humorous reply by Rajneesh
and they say he has no sense of humour
He is witty sharp and funny if you really know him.
He replies all his email himself as has always been his way and it looks like it is always better to email him direct and personal.
Thanks Shantam and keep it coming
Anurag
Swami Anurag
” Kranti You are putting out your own words and spin here ;
NO.. This is exactly what was said by you on behalf of Rajnessh
” Yes Osho did not know what was not even aware of what he was doing is true.”
Common Give me a break!! Anurag.. We are supposed to highly intelligent Osho sannyasins..
Osho’s ” Awareness ” about what He was teaching / using devices has nothing to do with Osho knowing few FACTS about Sheela
Common I cant belive this .. Osho said Enlightenment means He is aware of Himself / His true nature . It does not mean that His room was bugged.
When I said Osho was aware of what He was doing I was reffering to the level his conciouness and Enlightened beings can not behave out of conditioning..The whole process of awareness is getting out of conditioned reactions.. Poor mans’s or Richa mans’s or whatever it is..
” are a collective heritage of this Earth from all the Past Buddhas and Enlightened ones.”
Holy shit this collective heritage and all. So much for self importance and importance of sannyasins.. What about other human beings ? Are they not so valuable and should be removed from earth?
As fasr as your DATA on number of years is concerned and logic I honestly dont the whether to laugh or cry in seeing the desparation behind that creating such stuff … Man! you are desparately in need of some points and you will go to any length..
Osho was not popular to begin with , then somewhat popoular and famous and then notorious and then very famous ..So what ? Thats how every master grows.. How many people knew Buddha in early days , How many people knew Jesus in early days.. he even has track record of missing 7 years in between and stories to go along with it.. What are you trying to communicate using such data ?
Such desperation to prove something against Osho .. Completely programmed by Rajneesh .. OR you may rajnessh himself posting in the name of Anurag..
yes Anurag so why dont you stop answering for Sw Rajneesh and you are unconciously dominating him as he is still in the body and can speak for himself whenever he feels its needed to , we are here as individuals and on the path for ourself , so please be a witness ,only a request to you .
Abhay
I felt you could have had a spark of awakening and you were able to see some facts mentioned by Anthony.. Didnt expect the spark to go off this quickly.. But I also asked whether you really meant it as I was not sure ..
OK… I accept you said those things sarcastically and didnt mean it
I didnt say Osho vision is not clear.. I said He didnt have one .. He neither had vision or any teaching.. all this problems come out of the assumption that he had great vision and it encompassed all paths ..So every path should be allowed etc etc
He simply wanted us to drop all nonsence and live ..not according to any vision but truth of the moment.. Thats it. period..
Rest of the story is about devices he used..
“popular saying of Osho’s that it is between the lines and between the words that really is the essence of his message: the empty space, the silence, the gaps”
It is not only about Osho ..It is the same with all the masters.. inspite of this all the masters spoke because the disciples were not ready to sit in silence..
If that was not required then there would not have been any need for masters , disciples , awakening etc.. All genuine masters spoke and used their speaking as devices. Thats why even a Buddha contradicted himself on the question of GOD.
” This is his guide-book for the present and the future humanity. This is his vision. It is a guide-book for dummies to get from darkness to eternity. ”
This is a REAL STUNNER
OSHO and GUIDE BOOK for FUTURE?????????
Dear Abhay.. If we think Osho gave us a guide book We missed Osho so badly .. There is no space for discussions
And I dont want to even touch that ” Whoever lost money into The Ranch should receive just compensation ” stuff.. May be you should have been born in the year 2205.. You are way ahead of your time..
” This is his guide-book for the present and the future humanity. This is his vision”
I can recover from this..Hope you didnt mean it.. This is literally reducing Osho to a retired Scool teacher status..
That Hot DOG is sheer mental indulgence.. there is no humour in it.. Osho asked us go past SEX and not to sit there and come p with fancy / imaginative explanations for SEX and that too for 4 guys / 1 girl type of stuff..
And then we blame on Osho himself for all the ugly jokes we want to tell . Osho still has to suffer for all the devices he used / things he spoke … from his own sannyasins.. Too bad..
Swami Anurag
Please dont glorify the ugly jokes of Sw Rajnessh ..Those are disgusting stuff
I recently came across suggested books for reading in a self development website .. there were number of books and very brief description of the books .. there was one Osho book with this explanation
The Book is From Sex to Superconciousness
This is the description
” I took the book and read page after page .. One thing I couldnt find in that whole book is SEX. ”
Such a Beautiful understanding from the reader.. he is not even a sannyasin..But He took Osho and put him in such a respected position
What we see here is all ugly / perverted jokes / body parts cutting stuff and then blame everything on Osho as though he asked us to keep coming up with such things
anusrag,
thanks for filling us in about how funny rajneesh`s joke is.
we would never have known otherwise,for sure.
you are a veritable double-act.
the lunghi guy
and his
anusrag.
that`s some great material you`ve got there. there!
Kranti you say….I didnt say Osho vision is not clear.. I said He didnt have one .. He neither had vision or any teaching.. all this problems come out of the assumption that he had great vision and it encompassed all paths ..So every path should be allowed etc etc….He simply wanted us to drop all nonsence and live ..not according to any vision but truth of the moment.. Thats it. period….Dear Abhay.. If we think Osho gave us a guide book We missed Osho so badly .. There is no space for discussions
What do you think Osho was doing speaking to people all those years? What do you think is the purpose of all his books? You somehow think you have transcended all devices and now are beyond all methods other than living the truth of this moment. Osho could have said just that, and a few similar words would have been enough, enough that is for great wise people like Kranti.
You have this whole vision thing mixed up. Of course Osho did not want anyone to live according to any vision, even if it came from him. This is however totally different from him providing a vision for people to learn how to live in the moment. This is the different between Osho’s discourse and books, and religious dogma. Religious dogma helps people become learned and give great speeches like the bishops, priests, and popes of this world.
A Masters vision on the other hand allows seekers to find their way in the dark. Even when the Master has left the body, a seeker may find the perfect phrase or story or book to help them move forward when the way seemed blocked. This is Osho’s vision. This is why I referred to it as a guide-book. You have suddenly become egoistically wise, so why do you not burn all Osho’s books? Perhaps we can have a great celebration around the burning? That is after all what celebration is isn’t it Kranti?
The following comments are arrogant and patronizing. They also fit with your current egoistic poise because the post is labelled after you and you may become a famous guru by appearing front page special on Osho Viha. If you think I am jealous you are sadly mistaken. I could not care less and could not be bothered with such matters.
You arrogantly and patronizingly say:
I felt you could have had a spark of awakening and you were able to see some facts mentioned by Anthony.. Didnt expect the spark to go off this quickly..
I can recover from this..Hope you didnt mean it..
Kranti who are you to make comments like that about me. Have we met before? If not, you know me by my writing here. Also, you could not even pick up on the sarcasm about Anthony because you just read the nice stuff I wrote and ignored the rest. This is what a judgemental mind does. It cuts out anything that does not fit with their fixed view of the world. What fits with their view it accepts. In this way you hold on to your fixed views and think that you become wise. This is what is currently happening to you. Your comments highlight this foolishness. It also shows again that you have not the capacity to be objective and impartial in this discussion. It also shows that you are becoming more rather than less impartial.
Yahoo
Abhay
Kranti you are becoming more rather than less biased.
oshobob,
do you think that they had this sort of carry on in zen china?
is this the modern day equivalent of a bunch of monks stuck in a monastery beating the hell out of each other with zen-sticks?
Abhay
Once again your ego is hurt.. I didnt say anything eprsonal about you.. I was hoping that post of your was what you mean.. later on you came and justified by saying you posted sarcastically and didnt mean it
I said you seem to accept Anthony’s points for a moment only to see you taking it back and justifying it..
” What do you think is the purpose of all his books?
What books you are talking about.? . Osho did not write any books.. His diciples recorded everything..
He himself would have burnt everything and celebrated.. His people didnt allow.. Thats it..
If you still think Osho had vision / guide book and all then its your trip..
I am not a writer.. I would have contributed few jokes to viha…that too copy paste from Osho.. I myself dont think i can contribute anything useful..So you dont have to worry about that part
God ! One guy is trying to become famous by speaking nonsense against Osho & using the sannyasin community , two people defending it left and right , another two setting up the foundation for democratic / legal / administrative system to support JUST in case if the Would-Be-Master clicks.. They also want to Finance it by getting compensation for the victimes of ranch and diverting the funds there ..
Once again your ego is hurt.. Kranti this is more of your patronizing arrogance.
If your take of my comment about Anthony was that I seemed to adopt a wise and conscious viewpoint, and then reversed and went back into ignorance, then you are still reading what I write with a serious blind spot. This is your bias and your arrogance.
Kranti obviously the Osho books are a transcription of spoken word. Do I have to spell out everything that is obvious, or is it again your arrogance that you assume that I have no idea?
What would Osho have burnt….his books? He purposely had his books made in hard-cover. Do you think that that was so they could make a better fire, or so they could last a long time – because of their timeless quality?
You say I do not have to worry about what you may write. I have been responding to a lot of your comments for only one reason. You have used a multitude of cunning mental strategies to avoid the central questions and answers concerning the Osho movement. Even the thread you started here was a deceptive emotional ploy. A few tears and we will all forget about the hard questions that were being asked. I respond to you because you are very deceptive. People need to be aware of this.
As for your last comment….sounds like you are getting the right idea.
Yahoo
Abhay
No Abhay.. I can only say I didnt have any such intention while posting this thread.. To me Osho is a synbol of celebration and i posted what i understand. I made it clear…It was nothing to do with issues
But as always topic got diverted into serious issues.. i do agree serious issues have place .. But i am not for 24 hours discussion on those things..
I ddidnt assume anything about what you know or dont know.. But when post we do write things to be explicit..
I accept i believed you accepted Anthony’s views.. thats post made great sense to me.. Seemed to be a deep understanding..I even stated if thats the case that can be new biginning in Our conversations.. thats much respect i attached to that post .. Sorry for not understanding you did not mean it..
I still share some views with you and also Shantam. I read it sincererity when you write about water contamination.. I accept shantams few views and respect his feelings for seeing more balance in pune on certain aspects
But apart from that i am not into the kind of stuff you or Harri Om or Rajnessh are into.. Thanks for all sharing
I am looking forward to some China trip with Oshobob & Frank as it will help me to appreciate ZEN more..
OOOHHH!
So hard to let go… it gets interesting again.
Abhay, it is clear you were never at the ranch. I was not a permanent resident, but i went there as a temporary worker and also at the festivals.
Regarding your lawsuit and having the money returned. We all new what was all about. We were not deceived. We were building our city, our world. I personally wanted osho to have one rolls for every time of the year. If I would have had the money I would have given it to him.
It was great. We were the most intelligent and sexy spiritual group around. And our master was the funniest most provocative master ver.. and in a rolls… great!!
As I said to a friend once when he asked me about being the disciple of the rich man`s and sex guru.
I said: ” and what do you expect… if you are going to have a guru wouldn´t you choose the rich and the sex guru? what would you choose? the brick guru? the holy water guru? Come on, we had the best shown in town… and it was ours.
We published whole page advertising in conservative newspapers in Oregon saying ” explore your sexuality”.
We were not victims , we were eating the cake!
And sannyas was a game that was played at ones own risk, there was not insurance, no guarantee, it was a pure jumping into the abyss, following this mad beautiful man. and we knew it…. and loved it.
When it was over, I was sad, but I let it go. it was part of the game. Nothing to hold on, but your own inner silence… and still is with me.
and yea chocolate chips bread mmmmh!
shanti is right.
you go to the craziest best most enlightening and fun party ever,then the next day some guys are complaining about health and safety and calling the compensation lawyers?
ee-jiatts!!
he who speaks does not know
he who knows does not speak
the answer is right there in front of your nose
everybody knows
its their nose.
come on oshobo,
how about that trip to china?
Do you remeber the bumper sticker we had in our cars?
“MOSES INVESTS. JESUS SAVES, BHAGWAN EXPENDS”
great… we were proud of it!!
Shanti , your post : I said: ” and what do you expect… if you are going to have a guru wouldn´t you choose the rich and the sex guru? what would you choose? the brick guru? the holy water guru? Come on, we had the best shown in town… and it was ours.”ws
shows how superficial you are and that love is for yourself and your master , sorry but had convey to you , maybe you can work on yourself better , its never too late.
Abhay is brilliant and clear :
You have used a multitude of cunning mental strategies to avoid the central questions and answers concerning the Osho movement. Even the thread you started here was a deceptive emotional ploy. A few tears and we will all forget about the hard questions that were being asked. I respond to you because you are very deceptive. People need to be aware of this.
and Kranti you seem to be a Homo ?
Rajneesh Hotdog was 4 Chicks and One Guy
not 4 Guys and 1 Chick !!
and on this subject Osho himself
recomended 3 Guys for One Chick
Now this Kranti is the Pure One here
remembering that Osho says to go Beyond Sex !!!!!
Are you celebate or trying hard to be one Kranti ??
This is why you appear to be so frustated !!
Anurag
“MOSES INVESTS. JESUS SAVES, BHAGWAN EXPENDS”…..SANNYASINS MONEY !!
great Zen philosophy here
Now we have a real Zen Master
and great devices to awaken sannysins,
from their unconciousness.
and here Shanti is the obedient one
watching the show with praise and great applaud
A dumb joke played on retarded dumb believer Shanti
What a show what a show…and we know who is the clown now
Anurag
Kranti’s joke of the Year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dhyanum you have here
the article fit to publish in Viha magazine on how
Kranti wants
” Osho to be put into such a respectable position ”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Book is From Sex to Superconciousness
This is the description
” I took the book and read page after page .. One thing I couldnt find in that whole book is SEX. ”
Such a Beautiful understanding from the reader..
he is not even a sannyasin..But He took Osho and put him in such a respected position
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Osho wants to personally thank Kranti
for the respected position.
Anurag
Man, Anusrag it was not a zen treatment, It was a fun feast.
We were proud of our outrageous master. It was our own decision to be there… and I loved it. I was not being obedient, i was being myself. Do you think your guy in a lunghi, pretending to be poor when he is loaded is better?
Man Osho was for luxury and if you didnot like the trip, why on heart did you join the caravan. Just go to a nice swamiji sadhu somewhere. This trip is not for you!! This trip is for educated, wealthy, sexy, fun, light-deep people. Not for you dear.
You seem too prude and puritanical.
Shanto for the FIRST time you are RIGHT
YES….
THIS TRIP !!!
you are on a TRIP !!!!!
This trip is for educated, wealthy, sexy, fun, light-deep people. Not for you dear.
You seem too prude and puritanical.
Sorry your soul mate Kranti is the pure and puritanical one here, so please help your fellow celebate friend Kranti beyond sex and get Osho into a respectable position in your society of believers.
This pair rhymes perfectly well Kranti and Shanti
Kranti Shanti made for each other
Now you go the date you were looking for
and a happy marriage with lots of cookies chocolate chip bread hmmmmmmmmmmmm
What a show what a show
Anurag
Anusrag. if you wanted to be with osho you either had to have the resources or be willing to put your ass to work. Those were the conditions. And our master was frontal and open about that. he was not for the masses , he was for the elite. he called himself the rich man´s guru.. and he explained thoroughly what he meant by that, and why.
If you did not like this. why on earth did you take sannyas? answer me this question.
Osho was very clear on this point. He was not an ascetic sadhu. He did not give a shit about poor people. And he said it openly. You do not like it… well just do not become a sannyasin… very simple.
Now Shanti is coming out
and talks the truth finally here
it is all about Shanti’s Elite Ego….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
he was for the elite.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He did not give a shit about poor people.
And he said it openly.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
no need to add anything as all is clear now
go enjoy your TRIP Shanti
Anurag
Anusrag… answer why did you take sannyas?
Shanti is the real thing here
No need for Amrito to help us anymore
She can overturn any baboon circle
She know Osho’s conditions and works her ass off
or puts her Resourses to Work
This Woman Rocks
Shanti the Elite Ego Trip
Wow what a show what a show
Anurag
Anusrag. Answer for once and for all. Why did you take sannyas if you did not like it?
why i took sannyas ??
not for the reasons you took sannyas !!!
and as far as i can understand you are not a sannyasins but on an ego trip
bye bye Shanti
You are too poor to attack
so just forget all about it
Anurag
Man you must have taken sanyyas after osho was dead… or through some other guruji. Because obviously you do not like Osho´s way…
Babe you are in the wrong crowd here… go join the lunghi baba..
Shanti i am being compassionate
and you do not know any Osho way or any way whatever and you are totally lost and lonely
and Osho is not DEAD
I am a devotee and lover of Osho
He is alive for me in my heart in my tears in my joy and in my songs in my dance and in my devotion and in my surrender. My Master Osho is alive for me !!
i am totally in LOVE with OSHO
and not in LOVE with the Baboons circle who are destroying his living message of love and celebration
You are the Inner Circle baboon types and lost and loveless who need no Master and are enough unto yourself ego.
Crowd what Crowd ??
I am an Individual here…
you are with that crowd of baboons and buffons
so in your words i say Get Lost Shanti
Anurag
” Rajneesh Hotdog was 4 Chicks and One Guy”
OK..then what you guys are doing with that guy.. Send 4 chicks to him and forget all about it..
Anyway.. Leave me out.. I am NOT into your kind of trips..
I do have my trip with Osho and I am more than happy with that ..
Anurag ..If what you said is true ” I am a devotee and lover of Osho ” then it is not reflecting in your posts here ..thats much is certain..you seem to hate Osho for so many things..
Oshobob.. that Bodhidharma stories?
I am listening to Osho….beautiful words of eternal wisdom. They enrich me and let me grow.
I am reading these threads and they make me feel sick. Pure vomit of unenlightened minds. The same players Prem Shantam, Kranti, Abhay,
Rajneesh throw their mind garbage on these pages, instead of doing Dynamic
Meditation. Nobody seems to ready their own stuff and creates a bit of enlightening message. Just pure mind shit.
There are some issues, which would be interesting to follow up: the water issue, the issue of the banned sannyasin etc.
But it all gets buried under the urgent need to profile themselves by these same old very frustrated souls….
What to do Anand..We started off few months ago with focus on few subjects. We got diverted .. I was reacting more and more to the posts..
Thats I why tried focusing on my inner feelings & connectedness with Osho by posting this thread … Now hopefully i am out of those things..At the most i want to restrict myself to some good sharing.. I am looking forward to some sharing with Frank & Oshobob now on few facst related to Bodhidharma and Zen ..
Anurag. You do not love Osho, You love an idea you have of Osho. because you do not like him, his actions.
and it is ok. you right to feel that way, But answer a straight question
If you do not like osho´s actions why did you take sannyas?
>>bye bye Shanti
>>You are too poor to attack
>>so just forget all about it
>>Anurag
Shanti,
He wasn’t there and doesn’t know that it was a place different than anything we imagined now or then. There’s no way for there to be any shared understandings between experience and no experience.
I don’t know where this notion of attacking that which is not understood comes from, but it does appear to be a pattern of the supporters of that guy Rajneesh (my first time referring to him) From my limited observations, I’m concluding it’s a bit of a shared behavior learned from the same source.
A new thread added to this tattered fabric of sannyas. A bit like a piece of new thread mending a old cloth. It’s there, the thread and cloth are now a part of each other, but will never be the same as each other.
Times are still interesting… though there’s no sharing chocolate chip bread and tea times any more.
-g
Shanti . You do not love Osho.
You love the idea you have of Osho.
I am looking at the ground reality of sanyasins
and the ground reality is unloving and ungrateful people like you and the Inner Circle of Baboons
who think that they are enough unto themselves
and do not need a Master anymore
Osho is my Master
The Inner Circle is not my master and my attack is against the Inner Circle and thereby also some actions of our Master that have led us to where we are today. Actions which allow the Inner Circle to destroy Osho vision.Remember Osho promised no more controllers and dictators like Sheela ever again.
And here we are repeating the same ugly pattern of power that corrupts and dominates over others.
So naturally i will also contemplate and see the negative actions and mistakes that were left behind by Osho himself and these are facts all sannyasins need to consider and see and debate openly.
Blindness is obedience and slavery
Eyes Open is the way of a sannyasin.
and even if that means look at the obvious mistakes
of Osho like in the case of Sheela.
So there is perfect harmony in me and my sannyas
and i love Osho as a Master
but i also remain open to see his mistakes and the ground reality sannyasins are in today,
But you cannot understand this as a disciple
and thus you are just an obedient slave which makes you a blind worshipper which is not the way Osho wants a sannyasin to be.
Anurag
Yes Garimo we are all learning from the wisdom of Rajneesh who was with Osho since 1980 and knows what he is talking about.
And not only me but also hundreds of ols sannyasins and new sannyasins are gathering in this new fire of rebelllion and the rebelious spriit.
Just wait and see how this soon overtakes and becomes a new movement of Osho alive again for thousands of Osho lovers thirsty for truth and vision and wisdom of the New Man that Osho envisioned.
Rajneesh is that New Man coming
otherwise you can choose Amrito the Baboon
the Old Man dead and buried and hiding now.
Anurag
My God, Osho has become a horse in the race course, everybody can bet on the poor dog.
Anurag it seems you are getting sandwitched between Osho and Your new guru, mixing cocktail of energy and feeling high.
I think in the archievs of sannyasnews there is one long thread written by RANI, once she was what rajneesh or others are now.
I could not find it again, but it is worth reading. when honesty radiates from words, words become sacred, otherwise words are nice for pornography, spiritual or otherwise.
correction -on the poor horse
Anusrag
About the ranch
Where you there when the sun was setting in the horizon drawing looong shadows to the juniper trees?
Where you there when your master looked straight in to your eyes with a grin?
Where you there when a wave of red people descended the slope of the hill and your heart was throbbing with love and joy for your friends and fellow travelers?.
Where you there when you harvested the carrots you yourself planted last year?
Where you there when life was so full, rich and adventurous that you felt your heart could not take more?
Where you there when after working for 12 hours a day you still wanted to dance madly until 2:00 am in the disco because life was now.
Where you there when you felt YOU were building your world.
When you there when the silence of your meditation was shared by 16.000 other people?
Where you there when you felt your master was the most iconoclastic, outrageous, and funny person you could be with?
Where you there when you saw the feet of rolls royces and you master dressed in a bright robe, with diamonds watches, and you felt we were joking with the stars
Where you there when drunk cowboys with rifles chased you down the dirt road because you were “better dead than read”.
and finally were you there when at the end of long day of work with your friends… you felt the smell of freshly baked chocolate chip bread
If you were not…
then you have no right to speak about it.
Rajneesh is that New Man coming…
it is true. With people like Anurag and Meera kid,
history will remember him as Bin laden of Osho movement.
And i am sure, rajneesh is a this much intelligent that he will stop this crap, people are saying on his behalf.
It is true that J&A team need the forces of check and balance, otherwise their ego will go beyond limit, but Euphoria around one person is going a bit too far.
Shantam
Bin Laden is already in control of the Resort !!
Look at these Inner Circle dictators who control and make restrictions and bannings and the ” no this no that rules” and ugly patterns of enforcement in the Enforcement Resort
Look at the Osho movement and their effects today in Osho centers worldwide of fear if they do not sign the letter of understanding ( Amrito Understanding )
and you can see Bin Laden shadows all over the Osho world.
The new Taliban is this enforcement regime
which is creating the new ” Enforced NO Religion ”
A No Religion movement which is fanatical and dictatorial and fear of banning is their blackmail and weapon to control sannyasins.
Aanurag
Yuck,
another missionary on a mission, off to change the world.
I’ll not be joining your band wagon so to make more room for you and your friends. It’ll be a win=win situation for us both.
I’ve been around enough to see when someone is repeating things I’ve already learned from Osho. I know how to be a zero too.
enjoy the ride.
“And not only me but also hundreds of ols sannyasins and new sannyasins are gathering in this new fire of rebelllion and the rebelious spriit.
Just wait and see how this soon overtakes and becomes a new movement of Osho alive again for thousands of Osho lovers thirsty for truth and vision and wisdom of the New Man that Osho envisioned.
Rajneesh is that New Man coming”
No Shanti i was not there !!
So please enjoy your dreams if it makes you happy and have as many chocolate chips as you desire
Osho’s dream is not in our dreaming
Awakening is the dream of Osho
But enjoy your dream and go into the silent night
And soon the time will come to be shaken out of the dream and the chocolate chips will not be that sweet
But dream on and on and on
so sweet dreams in the Ranch
Anurag
>>>Rajneesh is that New Man coming
>>otherwise you can choose Amrito the Baboon
>>the Old Man dead and buried and hiding now.
I see many more options.
I’m not so poor and limited as that.
My life is over flowing with options.
Garimo
I’ve been around enough to see when someone is repeating things I’ve already learned from Osho.
I know how to be a zero too.
Yes this zero you mean is that coward who is afraid to speak up against the Resort Baboons.
And learnt enough to see Sheela type dictators repeat history i presume.
Anurag
“i am simply a zero
no pop star or guru or master…
just an ordainary man living this zero”
Sw. Rajnessh
Would you like me to provide you with references of the many times Osho is speaking of being a zero that your new guru is repeating?
I’ll search for you if you’d like…
So Garimo
Now does Rajneesh have to create a new dictionary
and all new terminology also
now that Osho used that word or number Zero ??
And where did Osho borrow all his words and concepts and terminologies ect from, those 100,000 books that he read from his library huh ??
And how about all the sutras and discourses on all the major religions of the world, Buddha, Mahavir ,Zen, Tao, Sufi, Upanishads, Jesus, Kabir Meera, Nanak,
all were his original works and original ideas and never used any of those old sutras??
So why cannot Rajneesh use the word Zero
also as his own experience of the same Zero ??
Did Osho invent the term Zero ??
What stupid children we have here.
Anurag
Dude! didn’t you just tell me my options were the “new Rajneesh” or resort baboons?
Now you want to tell me there is a whole history of options?!
Thank you.
I knew we could find a shared understanding somewhere.
choosing rajneesh as your option = cool.
telling me he’s my option = not cool
get off my freedom.
Garimo Dude
Who said the message was
Only For You Personally ??
This is an open sannyasin forum and hundreds read all these messages. Atleast you have many options and that is perfectly great and wise understanding which i fully appreciete and love this open view.
But what i am pointing to is that there are
No Options at the Resort which i was led to understand was Osho Resort or Ashram
and not Amrito Resort
and just Zen according to Amrito
Anurag
Wow Garimo is on Fire here
” Get Off My Freedom ”
sounds very couragageous
Was that a message for The Resort Baboons
Then we are really talking Dude !!
This Fire is Cool !!! Dig the Vibe ??
Anurag
Garimo Dude
>Who said the message was
>Only For You Personally ??>
Maybe this is a new understanding I need to learn.
I always thought when someone uses my name they’re talking to me… not just talking at others.
>Yes Garimo we are all learning from the wisdom of Rajneesh who >was with Osho since 1980 and knows what he is talking about.
>And not only me but also hundreds of ols sannyasins and new >sannyasins are gathering in this new fire of rebelllion and the >rebelious spriit.
>Just wait and see how this soon overtakes and becomes a new >movement of Osho alive again for thousands of Osho lovers thirsty >for truth and vision and wisdom of the New Man that Osho >envisioned.
>Rajneesh is that New Man coming
>otherwise you can choose Amrito the Baboon
>the Old Man dead and buried and hiding now.
>Anurag
>But what i am pointing to is that there are
>No Options at the Resort which i was led to understand was Osho >Resort or Ashram
>and not Amrito Resort
>and just Zen according to Amrito
So feel the heat.
and re-examine your understandings.
So your ” Get Off My Freedom ”
Was just a soft feeler for me ??
Oh just when i was giving you
some credit for courage
Oppsy Poopsy Poop
Anurag
Garimo
I should feel the heat ??
Or Amrito who is hiding and re- examining his cowardice and delusion in power ??
The one who feel the heat hides
I am here on the forum
and so is Rajneesh open and challenging
Where is feeling the heat
and who is cooking whom ???’
As Rajneesh calls it roating.
Anurag
>Was just a soft feeler for me ??
no dear,
it was for me.
You’re about you.
I’m about me.
Ok Garimo
you and me are not 2
but One buddhafield
interdependant interlinked interwoven as One
but i accept your friendship and gentleness
love Anurag
I guess there also are many options for re-examining too.
One option is to examine yourself… another is being occupied with others outside of yourself.
Freedom is great. Consequences vary.
Garimo
I like your clarity and silent approach here
What are your opinions on the Inner Circle Mandate ??
Anurag
>Ok Garimo
> and me are not 2
>but One buddhafield
>interdependant interlinked interwoven as One
>but i accept your friendship and gentleness
>love Anurag
Then why do you speak so ugly to others hearts that I share?
Anurag, you hav enot answered, are you on the facebook?
I think many of us would like to see your face.
I’m here now.
You’re here now.
>What are your opinions on the Inner Circle Mandate ??
It’s about you and me. Not the imaginary “Them” out there.
I know nothing of a inner circle mandate. It is not with in me. Anything I think about it will come from my imagination.
If you are asking me about what I think about you thinking about it… I’d have to say “let it go.”
Yes, I am angry, focused anger…. it goes straight to the point, no bullshit, no political correctness, no beating around the bush. When i read the bullshit and insane fantasies from guys like rajneesh and anurag anger is there. That’s telling it like it is. I’m beginning to believe that some “sannyasins” posting here are not sannyasins at all. The sannyas community is still on the terrorist watch list and given the notorious past reputations of various intelligence agencies, i would not be surprised if some people posting or reading here are working for these agencies in order to “disrupt” and make false allegations and spread lies about Osho, the ranch and pune. Maybe Anurag and rajneesh and meera are covert ops. The shit coming from Anurag especially, leads me to believe he is one. Nice try ASSHOLE!!!!! Get your facts straight before you post, you’re not fooling anyone except Prem Abhay. Nice to see fellow seekers putting the truth back into this thread. Better Red than Redneck!!!
Anurag it is not a dream. It was our reality.
We helped build the soil where you stand in the sannyas movement.
I said, AGAIN:
Where you there when the sun was setting in the horizon drawing looong shadows to the juniper trees?
Where you there when your master looked straight in to your eyes with a grin?
Where you there when a wave of red people descended the slope of the hill and your heart was throbbing with love and joy for your friends and fellow travelers?.
Where you there when you harvested the carrots you yourself planted last year?
Where you there when life was so full, rich and adventurous that you felt your heart could not take more?
Where you there when after working for 12 hours a day you still wanted to dance madly until 2:00 am in the disco because life was now.
Where you there when you felt YOU were building your world.
Where you there when the silence of your meditation was shared by 16.000 other people?
Where you there when you felt your master was the most iconoclastic, outrageous, and funny person you could be with?
Where you there when you saw the feet of rolls royces and you master dressed in a bright robe, with diamonds watches, and you felt we were joking with the stars
Where you there when drunk cowboys with rifles chased you down the dirt road because you were “better dead than read”.
and finally were you there when at the end of long day of work with your friends… you felt the smell of freshly baked chocolate chip bread
AND I WILL ADD ONE MORE
where you there putting your ass in the front line When CIA Black helicopters flew over the ranch just meters over our heard at night?
I was part of the peace force and was in the helicopter with I Kutteer guarding over Osho in his Drive bys
It is so easy ro speak about what you do not know Anurag
I say agian: If you were not…
then you have no right to speak about it.
… and still we let it all go and went dancing to the next adventure.
So you and abhay who want compensation and lawsuits for something you never sweated… following the sleff righteous attitude of the rajneesh con…
Get lost!
Prem Bubbie is back frustated and boiling with anger and rage at the way she she was booobied by Rajneesh and ran away
Finally she has come back with her new
Terrorist Theory after some heavy investigations
at her boobie station with Resort and deep consultations in secrecy of the
Osho Guidlines with Amrito
Have the Inner Circle Baboons Terrorists plot
finally been uncovered now Boobie ??
Who are now on that list ??
Or is it a secret guidline in Amritos secret dairy.
This debate has some new blood and new fire
and anger with concrete evidence
of the terrorist plots unfolding here,
so welcome to Boobie with the facts finally uncovered
who has also learnt a new word to add to her vocabulary and that too in capital letter to get full mileage to her terrorist plot revelations.
Anurag
Anurag,
If you are willing… would you please describe one occasion when you have been at the resort in pune and your personal enjoyment or experience had in anyway what so ever been interfered with by Amrito or the other management baboons in any department? How did you handle it in that moment?
It would help me to accept and understand your emotional state of hostility if it were based in a personal experience for you.
Am I correct in assuming you have been to the resort?
Thanks,
-garimo
(my spell check always wants to change “anurag” to “enrage”… but really you don’t seem to need any such help in that area)
You are a basket case Anurag!!! Halloween is approaching, no need to get into costume. Anurag–the pissed off trickster.
Prem Bubbie opps forgot Prem Boobies
is into HALLOWEEN again
BOOBIE in the past thread says:
Halloween is coming soon, so if anyone is going to a costume party get dressed as Osho(Mr. Rajneesh can help there). Imagine hundreds of Osho look-a-likes, I bet even Mr. Rajneesh couldn’t be distinguished from the rest. That will get him pretty pissed-off I bet. What a big Ego!!!! You’re small potatoes pal!!! Satya: What drugs have you been taking?
RAJNEESH said :
now one special halloween joke
just for prem bubbie
she goes undressed
hidden under two huge orange pumkins
and everyone knows it prem boobies
imagine hundreds of pumpkin boobies look-a-likes
a real scary halloween !!
trick or treat anyone ??
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This year is going to be a very sacry Halloween specially as Boobies is going with her
Hanging Pumpkins scary costume
and all the childern are stayng home.
Seems Boobie cannot find a boyfriend
and is anxiously waiting for Halloween
to flaunt her Hanging Pumpkins
come again Boobie ??
Anurag
but thanks Boobie for the good advice that i do not need to get into costume and will stay home
hidden in my basket
I feel Very sorry for you Shanti when you say :
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
where you there you putting your ass in the front line When CIA Black helicopters flew over the ranch just meters over our heard at night?
I was part of the peace force and was in the helicopter with I Kutteer guarding over Osho in his Drive bys
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Looks like you went to battle and joined the Army,
so now you need some De-Hypnotherapy under Amrito to remove these deep scars of
” putting your ass in the front line
with CIA helicopters behind your ass ”
Wow what a Thrill and what an Achievement to protect Osho in his drive byes with your ass in the front line.
Sounds like you enjoyed the army recruitment and all your posts show a battle hardened woman ready to take on the CIA.
The Oregon War is Over Now so Go Home Soldier
and get some healing therapy singing Om Shanti Om
Anurag
Anurag,
If you are willing… would you please describe one occasion when you have been at the resort in pune and your personal enjoyment or experience had in anyway what so ever been interfered with by Amrito or the other management baboons in any department? How did you handle it in that moment?
It would help me to accept and understand your emotional state of hostility if it were based in a personal experience for you.
Am I correct in assuming you have been to the resort?
Thanks,
-garimo
Yes..
Rajneesh is the new men which Osho was pointing at.
Remember the last few statements of Osho “Perhaps you will come across an another man like me”
love
amitabh
Garimo
The moment i entered the Resort
i passed a white haired man looking sternly at me
and rudely asked me to remove my Osho Mala
saying Indians were just blind and devotional
and Osho was not for my ” Indian types ”
I found out it was a man called Amrito
I simply left quietly and will never return
to such a place again that is so condemnatory
and judgmental for just wearing an Osho mala
After leaving i have met many sannyasins and spoken to many on blogs in the Osho movement .
Then onwards i met many people who have similar stories of such attacks and bad behaviour about Amrito
Then i fortunately read Tears of the Mystic Rose
and met Swami Rajneesh and found him
to radiate Osho and always felt his love and devotion
for Osho in all his words and actions.
He only spoke of Osho and was always shy about himself and about his inner experiences and always stated to me that it was the love of Osho that i saw
and nothing else.That he was just a hollow bamboo allowing Osho to flow through him.
Slowly i began to see the same attacks on him and i know him personally and know that he only shares his love for Osho and is being brutally attacked with lies and propaganda against him by the Inner Circle
i hope you understand that Amrito is the cause of many such cases of people leaving the place and thus is spreading everywhere from what i see and read.
Amrito is biased egoistic and racist
Anurag
”Anurag it is not a dream. It was our reality.
We helped build the soil where you stand in the sannyas movement._________________________________________
then you have no right to speak about it.”
Ma Shanti , l have been part of the ranch , but you seem to be going too far by speaking about rights, we somehow cant take the credit even if we were there we cannot fool the (specially new) sannayassins by such statements.lam sure you didnt pay attention to my previous comments , and maybe will conviniently not pay attention even on this one ,but lam glad l did convey this to others who are here .
Anurag,
Thank you for sharing your story. I feel valued and considered by your answers to my questions.
I imagine the encounter with Amrito felt very insulting and it sounds like it wasn’t the welcoming you would have liked.
I think I would have wanted to feel more considered and cared for like any other lover of Osho.
I’m able to understand you having feelings of resentment… only from living with plenty of my own, and have in the past reacted in ways I no longer do since they weren’t strategies that were meeting the needs I wanted met. I’ve learned to no longer trust that sannyasins are friends just because we share a master. Friends are friends.
I’m wondering if the crazy vicious talk to others is a strategy that is meeting your needs? Does your spirit/being feel expansive or restricted, content? Are you clear on what your unmet needs are?
-g
Anurag.. I am with you as far as that incident is concerned..I know how bad you would have felt..It s not that you did anythin bad..just wearing a mala which is personal way of relating with Osho. I will never justify such a treatment..
Even If i see it in the context of what they are implementing ( That is where we have all the disagreements ) that could have been done in a polite way
But i respect Shanti for all things she mentioned.. She is really feeling good about Ranch days.. As fsr as she is concerned every experience had been positive and she has every right ti live with thise feelings..
And more importantly she is ready to accept responsibility for her life during the perios and she is not shifting the blame on Osho unconciously.
What she was refering to as ‘ rights’ in my opinion is expressing from experience.. Especially because Anurag was so critical of Ranch and shifting all the blame on Osho, she seem to suggest she is aware of Ranch days better
Thats what Osho tried to tell us.. Not shifting the blame on a FATHER figure
When I tried to communicate i am always told I never lived with Osho and i can not speak about certain aspects … I accept/respect that and i restrict uself general understanding about Osho/vision and not specific facts / situations.. So it is the same logic..
Anurag experience should be respected But he has no right to generalize everything because of his personal exerience and go to the extent of sayin Osho was responsible for the things now.. That is too judgemental on Osho himself and that comes from what He heard from Rajnessh not his personal experience..
Anurag,
You could always return to the Resort without the mala or with the mala hidden under your clothes. If you really wanted to meditate, you would put up with that nonsense.
This is pity full. Looks like a Saturday Night Parody. But is true. It is supposed to be Osho enlightenment celebration, but rajneesh is the star of the show. He thinks that because he bends over in front of the picture and shouts a couple of osho´s then it is about Osho.
He is just exploiting the sannyasins for his own benefit…
Really sad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooJ3yCrl-FM
Hi Anurag,
To keep things respectful and in-perspective, I can understand your experience at the resort. But whether or not it was the Doc or anyone else, I dont think I can say it was “racist” behavior.
In fact when I was at the resort and I wore my mala, I remember sitting accross a few tables from Amrito-the doc, and him beeing not too concerned. However, its interesting to note that the rudest people at the resort were the Indians. They were the most arrogant and distasteful in their behavior.
One Indian guy acted like a street bully when he told me to lose my mala and said it in the most disrpectful way. His buddy, another Indian guy, emediately saw that this guy was beeing pretty rude and tried to fix it by saying I could wear it. But the dude wouldnt stop and kept going on his power trip.
See, although I love India and I’m ethnically from Nepal, there is alot of discrimination within our countries in regards to caste, race, finances and anything else you can think of.
I am absolutely lucky to have been raised in a society like Canada where diversity is a cherished phenomenon, but even here I see alot of discrimination within ethnic communities. Be it the Indians, or the Sri Lankans or the Chinese. In the East we are accustomed to superestitious nonsense and hiearchy of status.
So, I don’t know the other side of the story and don’t doubt Amrito-the Doc, may have been stern. But, he did choose an Indian master in an Indian country with an Indian name, so I dont think he’s pretty racist. But his own view is that the Mala is not appropriate within the resort.
The same way, in Osho Tapoban, Nepal, if you are a Sannnyasin, a Mala is complusory. And i’m sure someone will tell you to put on your mala if you’ve taken sannyas, infact there are signs saying you must wear it within the commune.
I love Sw. Arun, and his opinion is that a person who doesn’t wear a mala is not a sannyasin. Now, I obviously do not agree, but I’m making this point that people have differences in opinion about Osho and they impliment them, whether in Pune or Tapoban.
In fact, in the West, its very difficult to introduce Osho as a master or guru to a mainstream audience…very difficult. Like there are niches who may understand, but if you are lookiing to spread Osho to today’s generation—another strategy is needed. Because Osho’s message is very contemporary, very beneficial, extremely practical–it shouldnt go to waste because of our own conditionings on “how” osho should be spread..
Atleast thats a hypothesis of mine currently in formation.
In the end Osho should be like a “free” market, where there aren’t barriers to entry in understanding Osho’s from one’s own perspective. And the maturity of understanding another perspective of this multi-dimensional master should be in every person, not the way it is now.
Like yourself Anurag, you sound like a reactionary when anyone attacks Rajneesh. I dont even think you carefully look into the points raised here, you just seem to have a vested interested in defending him like he’s a pope. And maybe he’s not that bad, but all of his “bhikkhus” are certainly painting a rediculous image of the man.
So I can understand Pune doing its thing—and Tapoban as well. I find these two places are truly spreading Osho with genuine intent! Ironically both are completely against eachother, but both are actively growing.
-Amrito
Garimo and Kranti
There is a a deeper matter that new sannyasins talk about which is actually putting off new seekers.
We see people like Amrito who have been with Osho for 20 years or so when Osho was alive in the body and another 20 years now .
We now see and hear that Amrito is a total drunkard and chain smoker and abusive dictatorial in his behaviour towards sannyasins.
This is the main turn off for new seekers
If this is the reality then why become a seeker at all ?
Just to end up becoming an abusive drunkard ??
To see such ugly disciples as caretakers of his Vision today is a message and worldwide signal of Osho’s failure. If this is the level of caretakers and they act like drunk dictators then these are the real enemies of Osho who are turning off new seekers
New seekers want their freedom to choose without threats of fear of retribution and banning.
New seekers and also need to be inspired to see beautiful examples and compassionate people who have been with Osho and to see taste touch and feel Osho through these living disciples.
People like Amrito are certainly not inspiring disciples and are turning off new seekers.
Then in sharp contrast when we see a sannyasin like Swami Rajneesh who is actually inspiring others to walk their walk and creating an openness in seekers are instantly attacked by all sannyasins without anyone really going to see for themselves.
His book Tears of the Mystic Rose is truly inspiring to all who have read it and i have read hundreds of letters from people who have now come back into the movement just because they were inspired by his book and his open sincierity.
I have met Swami Rajneesh and know myself that his life is an example for seeker who are now searching and his story is one of great significance for new seekers.
It turns me off to see that the Inner Circle misuse Osho ’s work to attack anyone that comes out into the world dancing and celebrating and expressing his love for Osho.
Where are the promised sannyasins who inspire
and are a bridge to the new seekers on the path ?
The ones who will dare to come will be slaughtered
by his own people, especially by those in power and others with their ugly vested interest.
Osho’s message is about Thousands of Buddhas coming and here is the ugly truth !!!
Thousands Buddhas and we cannot tolerate
even one and are jealous and bitching about him.
That is why Osho says that a Buddha will be misunderstood and that is fine by me.
But if the Osho crowd use the Resort funds and the Osho Network to actively spread false propaganda then it is barbaric and ugly as Swami Rajneesh is a model sannyasin of Osho to which Osho himself had declared in the Buddha hall
He has walked the path consciously for 29 years and lived by example his inner state of silence stillness and living vipassana
If we want to see Osho dream alive then we need to protect these coming Buddhas
which are His Dream and his Promise
for the new people on the path.
Otherwise we will create the greatest New No Religion
and a controlled Vatican
with Osho as the One
and Only One begotten Son of God
Remember Osho’s message is dead
without any examples of sannyasins who inspire and create the longing in others that they have walked and are expressing their arrrival and their joy.
This i feel is the message of Osho
This is His dream to see living Buddhas
walk and express their arrival in gratitude and joy
Now you all can slaugter Rajneesh here
and pay the price by killing
your own Master and His Dream
Anurag
beloved Amrito from Canada Yes
Again you agrue in favour of The Inner Circle
and completely forget that they have NO RIGHT
as their Mandate is Clearly Outlined by Osho Himself.
They have no right to interfere into spiritual considerations and are only to take care
of day to day managment.
Have you completely ignored Osho’s Mandate
and given the Inner Circle authority that they do not have in the first place ?
Do YOU have the Authority to Override the clearly outlined Authority Osho has created and worded ?
As far as Swami Arun is concerned he is not in charge of Osho’s legacy and is free to create the atmosphere of love and devotion in his ashram.His is not manuplating Osho’s future for millions of new seekers
.
Infact Swami Arun is brave and a true devotee of Osho and he is also banned like Swami Rajneesh
Swami Rajneesh speaks highly of Swami Arun
and their love for Osho is obvious and we should see that there are many other lovers of Osho who are not even accepted as Osho lovers.
They are branded criminals and outlawed by the Poona Enforcement Gang
Look at these matters clearly and you will understand that one cannot mix these issues.
Anurag
Anurag,
Pune (and the Ranch) have always been very odd places full of very odd people.
Who knows why Amrito drinks and smokes? Maybe it is to do with the stress of running that massive campus with so little support from sannyasins.
Osho was always against judging other people. He was also against fighting oneself (this is tantra.) If Amrito needs to go through the experience of being a drinker and smoker, so be it.
The fact is that Pune is still going after almost 20 years. The planet is full of difficult and damaged and immoral people, many of whom would be too much for Tapoban or the Indian communes, but who can be transformed in Pune. Pune can deal with the most difficult people, usually Westerners. It can help people who have never heard of the words meditation, witness, awareness, no-mind etc. For most western newcomers, Tapoban and the Indian communes would be too alien.
In my opinion if someone gets banned it is because he has some ulterior motive for being there, because he is not really interested in being there to learn meditation and love. If someone wants to go there to do the meditations, groups etc, I think they won’t get banned.
Dr Amrito wrote a great book : Bhagwan : The most godly man and the most godless man.
Try to understand Osho’s teachings. They are not saccharine. They are more subtle than they first appear.
Why would Sw Arun need to go to Pune? For what? His work is elsewhere.
Alok John says :
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anurag, You could always return to the Resort without the mala or with the mala hidden under your clothes.
If you really wanted to meditate, you would put up with that nonsense.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Atleast he agrees that it is nonsense,
and suggests that i put up with that nonsense.
Are you a dirty politician or a clever diplomat ?
You seem to be very cunning and devious.
Why should i hide my Mala ?
Is it a Crime to wear one ??
Should i hide it in shame ??
If it is only a Resort then how do such Rules appply
in a Resort anywhere in the world ??
Infact i would like to ask Amrito here if Christians are allowed to wear their Jesus Cross in the Resort ??
Are other people of other religions barred from any object they wear openly on their person ??
Sheer Bullshit and Sheer Hypocracy and these are Racist Rules and not allowed in India or in any Resort anywhere in the world.
These Baboons are overstepping their line
and they need to remember that it is a Resort and such facilities should have regulations that are legal.
The rules enforced at the moment are illegal
if challenged in the courts of law
will be termed racist and liable for procecution.
Anurag
Alok John seems to be Amrito’s buddy
both are British from what i can understand.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The fact is that Pune is still going after almost 20 years
That is the only miracle that Osho managed
somehow inspite of these Baboons
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dr Amrito wrote a great book : Bhagwan :
The most godly man and the most godless man.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes Past Glory and those were the good old days when he was a devotee and has now gone completely astray and has become an alcholic chain smoker.
Now he hates being a disciple and is enough unto himself as he states everywhere.
Was he drinking heavily and smoking around Osho ??
And remember a drunkard on the wheels is disaster
and that is where we are headed now.
Too much stress is creating tensions and alcholisim then he can become an ordainary disciple
without any power or function and retire
as he is not on a life mission
or a devoute missionary posting to spread Osho message all his life
Just Retire like others and go to the Pub in England and as Rajneesh says
God Help the Queen and Three Hail Mary’s
Anurag
you also say :And why should Arun go to Poona,
Because it is his freedom to go wherever he wants with no restrictions and he is also a disciple of Osho and the poona ashram is also his home and birthright to visit out of sheer rememberance and love
Why do you go there ?? What is your work there ??
Infact i would like to ask Amrito here if Christians are allowed to wear their Jesus Cross in the Resort ??
Are other people of other religions barred from any object they wear openly on their person ??
Some more matters for clarification on Resorts
which i received from Rajneesh a few days ago
worth mentioning here.
Osho suggested Aids Test as there was a large Commune in USA and also in India Ashram
as there were many residents living at that time.
Now it is simply a Visitors Resort.
The Legal Rules and Law for AIDS Test
are that It is not Mandatory but purely Voluntary
Legally no one can Demand an Aids Test
as a Pre- Requisite for gaining entry into a Resort
as no one can Demand an Aids Test
for Entry into a Hotel or any such establishment.
This is Law.
The Law does not allow anyone being forced
to conform to any dress standards
or uniforms in visiting ” a Resort ”
The Law does not permit anyone from being stoppped from wearing any religious object or symbol on person
in entering a Resort or Hotel or such places or establishment. That would be termed unsecular and against the law.
Rajneesh has pointed various illegal issues
that are now going to come to the courts
So we keep learning everyday as to what are our legal rights and freedoms so we will all be set free
from this Zoo of Baboons.
Anurag
So Anurag was getting his first zen stick fast and directly from Amrito.
Welcome to the Osho world of zen. One advise: when you hear the sound of the zen stick coming bow gently and let it pass. Your reactions show the hurt ego and no understanding into the works of the master. And by Master I mean Osho.
Instead you were running into the arms of the pseudo master, who gratifies your ego with his ferry tales and now you cry against Amrito.
Few points though ae interesting: if Jayesh, Yogendra and Amrito like to create a resort, then things like Aids Test, maroon robes sould be legally examined. Also the issue of banning. You can have a ashram with these rules, but they do not fit
into modern resort, which starts to look like a spiritual Disneyland.
I tottaly agree with Amrito
If at there were rude people they were indians.. especially the one who live inside.
I had bad experiences with them like Amrito mentioned.. They are very insensitive in so many ways..
Secondly i was there in JUly and i saw people wearing mals freely..I even saw people who are long timers living inside wearing mala..there seems to be no problem.. I also saw people nanasteying the rolls & marbles and all.. No one seems to be objecting
What personally Amrito does is none of our Business Anurag.. Osho is connected to every sannyasin individually and with each other.. We can not be that judgemental to define whether someone should drink & smoke or not..
Anurag .. You seems to be very reactionary to whatever is being said and just doesnt seem to come down from anger.. And you love Rajneesh so be it.. But most of the people here are pointing it out the fact that Rajneesh also is very reactive and specifically in this forum he lost control in such a manner which is not believable…
Amrito.. Thanks for pointing out the fact that mala is compulsory in Tapoban.. This is just an opposite of Pune and but no one seems to be speak agaisnt it..
I am not suggesting they shoud speak against and change it.. But if that is acceptable why they should not accept pune suggesting that mala is not required especially in the context of what they are trying to do..
No one has the right to ask any one to remove Osho Mala.
Osho was all for freedom.
This kind of behavior is simple interference with others freedom.
Dear Kranti
you can not put all indians in one category and say that they all are Rude.
For your information, Jayanti Bhai, Swami Amit etc are all indians and they stay inside ashram. Are they also Rude???
The issue here is not indians but the right to wear Osho Mala, or bow down to Marble podium or show one’s reverence towards the Beloved Master Osho.
No one has the right to interfere in my spiritual freedom.
At least, A Resort do not have the right to force rules on my spiritual inclination and freedom.
As per the Resort punch line - “It is a meeting place for friends”… Then why they are interfering with the spiritual issues.
love
amitabh
the point is not about Indians, its about the claims of racism. The fact is, everyone is in someway racist.
and although there is a different beauty within an environment in India and Indians, its more beautiful in a multi-cultural environment. Osho’s message is beyond nations and nationality per say.
yet India still has a long way to go before fully realizing Osho than the way the rest of the world is absorbing him. The same way Buddha was absorbed and tranformed entire nations, Osho is emerging as a tranformational force.
Sure in India people read his books and his magazines, but there is yet to be a full understanding of Osho’s vision. The conservative society of India will adopt Osho as a hindu avatar and accept him widely while ignoring his contentious views on sex and religious liberation.
And in Russia, South America, the Middel East, Nepal..Osho is exploding and people are transforming fully accepting his message. The young are in the majority as well..
hopefully India doesn’t miss Osho by adopting him into the Vedas..and not the destroyer of conditioned belief-systems!
-Amrito
and India is also a huge place on its own..
I want to seperate my views on Osho’s work in places like Punjab.
Sikh’s are more accepting of Osho because they were previously breaking away from Hinduism and Islam into the Sikhism. The sameway Osho is breaking them away from the dust of Sikhism and reflaming its original rebelliosness..
Hence alot of Punjabi sannyasins out there!
-Amrito
Brothers. We sannyasins stopped wearing the mala back in 1987. Osho asked us not to wear it except for meditation and the privacy of our room. When osho was alive 87-90 non of us wore mala. Nobody. If you do not believe me watch the videos of discourse of that time.
Once in a while a new sannyasin who had taken sannyas somewhere else showed up with a mala. but it was so uncool to wear one at that time, that soon he would stop wearing it in public.
After osho´s death people started wearing them again. And then sw. Arun came up with his own idea of sannyas… and Other indian sannyasn who had communes also started with the idea of wearing IT again.
BUt as Far as osho was concerned it was over 1987.
Kranti is trying very hard to please his British Masters and show that he is not an Indian but cultured and respectable like he want Osho to be
in his previous statements about Osho book
from Sex To Superconciousness.
You look like a sissy trying hard to sound intelligent.
And Kranti you have been reacting all these posts
and also admitted that you are confused and reacting and now you say
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But most of the people here are pointing it out the fact that Rajneesh also is very reactive and specifically in this forum he lost control in such a manner which is not believable…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rajneesh has shown his poise and cool in all his posts with sheer timing sometimes with humour and sometimes hammering and a genius challenging those baboons who have no clue on how to respond to his clarity and open defiance and challenge.
I know that hundreds have read these posts and several have copied pasted and sent all over the sannyas world and all are laughing at the total Mockery Rajneesh has made of these Baboons.
Rajneesh has made a Mockery
and totally Shamed these Baboons into hiding.
They have No Real Authority to face the challenge
All of us who are reading are laughing at these retards who are pretending to manage Osho Vision.
They cannot even mange to wipe their Ass in public and their shit is all over the place for public viewing.
This is a Shame and complete a Disgrace
and we demand a new Inner Circle
Anurag
You are confused anusrag.
th inner circle is not hiding from rajneesh, they just do not care about him and secretly have a good laugh
Amriro.. Thank you very much for beautiful sharing of views on the way Osho is spreading His wings..
Oshobob.. What about that path to Bodhidharma?
Totally stupid Shanti
begins with Brothers…
How about your Sisters ??
and saying ” it was cool and uncool ”
just like her TRIP tying to be COOL and UNCOOL
what bullshit do you eat for breakfast ??
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brothers. We sannyasins stopped wearing the mala back in 1987. Osho asked us not to wear it except for meditation and the privacy of our room. When osho was alive 87-90 non of us wore mala. Nobody. If you do not believe me watch the videos of discourse of that time.
Once in a while a new sannyasin who had taken sannyas somewhere else showed up with a mala. but it was so UNCOOL to wear one at that time, that soon he would stop wearing it in public.
After osho´s death people started wearing them again. And then sw. Arun came up with his own idea of sannyas… and Other indian sannyasn who had communes also started with the idea of wearing IT again.
BUt as Far as osho was concerned it was over 1987.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Osho asked people not to wear malas
for a specific reason and short ime
as the police were catching them and embassies were not giving Visas to foreigners.
Osho ridiculed those who dropped the mala and said that those sannyasins who dropped the malas when asked were the ones who were insinciere egoists
and were happy to drop the mala as they never wanted to wear one in the first place.
And those who loved him went on wearing the mala.
That those who still wore the mala when asked to drop it were really in love with him.
Want these quote of Osho ??
And Shanti just get lost i your Cool Trip
sannyas is not for you.
just go back to the Army and place your Ass
before the CIA helicopters
Anurag
Shanti again rants:
You are confused anusrag.
th inner circle is not hiding from rajneesh, they just do not care about him and secretly have a good laugh
They do not care about him then why send
worldwide circulars against him ??
They are getting drunk and pissing in their Robes
and we all know their End is nearing every day.
They are even laughing in SECRET nowadays ??
Wow what a SECRET revealed
Was that an Osho Guidleine to laugh in SECRET ??
Atleast One Guidleine revealed today after 20 years
Anurag
Is it Anurag or Rajneesh? Meera or Rajneesh? What other name(s) shall we call you? Swami(Ma) Dhyan Meera Anurag Rajneesh It has a nice ring to it, don’t you agree Rajneesh?
Came across a news that there is Indian dance production ‘ Life ‘ inspired by Osho happening in wales..
http://www.countytimes.co.uk/lifestyle/80502/indian-dance-arriving-at-various-venues-in-wales.aspx
Anusrag apart from fanatic you are an ignorant. the quote you mention is from the time of the ranch, 1985. he spoke later already back in pune about sannyasin not wearing the mala in public, but only in their rooms and for meditation.
But what am I asking you were never there. you just believe some stories other people told you.
You insist in speaking about what you do not know or never experienced. Ay least have the gust to asmit you were never in those times. so you DO NOT KNOW!
Regarding worldwide circulars from vatayana. IO already told you. but here it goes again.
rajneesh did not only send a mail advertising the launching of his book. he sent by air mail an actual full color 21 pages brochure called “the new man” with pictures of himself, mainly, and his camps in Russia, to the Osho meditation centers listed in the Osho.com page.
these meditation centers are meant for spreading the work of Osho, not anybody else ( as it was personally asked by osho) and have since they first started in the early seventies the mandate, from osho, to only spread HIS work, not the work of any other master. Including sannyasin satsang givers.
This has been a loong standing guideline.
Despite his former master´s wishes, rajneesh sent his material by air mail and asked to be invited to go to the centers. That is why the centers got the mail from Global connections.
See howignorat you are. now answer…
Anurag,
I’m having a problem replying to you. I’d like to… I’m observing when a opinion is presented to you, rather than you hearing and accepting it as presented, especially when it’s something you disagree with you translate it and create a whole new scenario and make some ugly attack and given the choice, my preference is to speak peace… and for me it is a choice.
If I were to share my thoughts and ideas, and you find them disagreeable, would you be willing or able to just be with that disagreement and not go into some push button reaction from your past calling me I’m this or that, or doing doing some unrelated this or that?
I welcome and enjoy when the connecting happens but I’m unwilling to be a receptacle for being dumped on and called names or lumped in to some group that you blame for some perceived wrong.
Is treating me fairly with consideration something you are willing to do? I can’t speak for others, but I’d prefer consideration and fairness.
-garimo
“Kranti is trying very hard to please his British Masters and show that he is not an Indian but cultured and respectable like he want Osho to be
in his previous statements about Osho book”
and than you say:
“Alok John seems to be Amrito’s buddy
both are British from what i can understand”..
Anurag YOU are the one who seems to be the biggest racist and discriminator of them all!
Re-read your prejudiced statements.
Anyone who disagrees with you is a British slave? You are an idiot.
I’m sure there’s more to the story about the Doc telling you off. You must’ve been walking with the Mala around your neck saying “you son’s of bitches I wear my mala and you cant do nothing—what you starin at whitey!”
I agree with him for gettin ur ass out.
-Amrito
Garimo
+++++++++++++++++
but I’m unwilling to be a receptacle for being dumped on and called names or lumped in to some group that you blame for some perceived wrong.
+++++++++++++++++
If you are actually distancing yourself here from the
Inner Circle then i can see your point
and i will in all fairness exchange and share intelligently with you atleast here.
I have raised many relevant questions sincierely
and also Rajneesh has raised many points clearly and there is no answers but stupid reactions by people like Shanti and so i respond in kind to such.
and i repeat clearly - I RESPOND in KIND.
if you read carefully then you will also see that Rajneesh Responds and hits hard and sharp.
Anurag
Sannyasins may or may not be wearing Mala during the period 1987-90…
But Osho never asked any body Not to wear mala inside the ashram.
So, how come now sannyasins are being stopped from wearing mala inside the ashram
” If you are actually distancing yourself here from the
Inner Circle then i can see your point”
What an ugly condition..that too to Garimo who tried to be so polite
Anurag Are yo deamanding that he has to distance himself from Inner circle to become eligble to be heard? and from you.
And then this
” if you read carefully then you will also see that Rajneesh Responds and hits hard and sharp.”
Everytime You talk for Rajneesh without fail..
This has to be Rajneesh only.. Prem Bubbie is right
Wow what a great look at history in the making!
Perhaps this is the way all fanatics were born—not directly from the root of the master, but from a secondary source.
And fanatics they are…almost militant in a way.
Now when I look back at Anurag’s sad sob story of the Doc picking on him, I see it in perspective.
So Anu’s ego gets hurt and the first person to take advantage of that is Rajneesh. And the man starts feeding Anu all the anti-resort stuff of the world, and really makes him believe that he is the “truest” disciple of Osho.
Even if Rajneesh speaks highly of Sw. Arun, even Sw Arun has declared the man a mentally unstable, delusional etc. Now he’s got one more person to call a “babboon”.
But the Rajneesh Gang is literally that: a gang. No one has any maturity, and they just vomit vomit vomit.
-Amrito
Kranti the blockhead
i do not like polite people and Garimo needs not be polite to me. These polite people are just cowards
and hypocrites.Of course i mention Rajneesh again and again as the issues here are about Rajneesh
and the Inner Circle and his challenge to them
And Kranti could not get the Shanti date and now tries to go for Boobie at the halloween this year.
So best of luck and enjoy those pumpkins with Boobie
See you all when i am back Viva La Brazilia
Anurag
Hmmm, I hear my box of rocks is beckoning me.
It’s able to see me as a individual, and is not into emotional blackmail.
My box of rocks understands freedom and fairness.
I’m a lucky guy!
Oh, Enraged.
if you’re thinking I’ve any connection to inner circle Garimo, you haven’t been paying close attention.
>>If you are actually distancing yourself here from the
Inner Circle then i can see your point
Anusrag…
another straight question… and please this time answer it directly…
Who gave you sannyas?
There is something very simple missing in the understanding of Amrito and others (including Anthony) who seek to justify Amrito’s approach in Pune – that is beyond what Anurag also pointed out: it is beyond his mandate to do so at the Pune space.
What is missing is the simple fact that the Pune resort is in India. It is true that many Westerners fit more with the model in Pune rather than in Tapoban in Nepal. The thing to understand is that it makes little sense to travel from the West to find a Western place in India – especially if it is as or more expensive than in the West. It makes no sense to travel all the way to Koregaon Park in Pune, India, if the experience is totally ‘Western’. So aside from the technical issue, there is a simple practical issue. Of course it has been pointed out that many Westerners (old and new visitors) to do not feel comfortable with the concept being developed in Pune.
Anurag….the law states that at a resort the drinking water must be free from contamination.
Anand if you say Osho gave a zen-stick hit to Anurag then you are saying that his not only a Master, but a Master acting in that capacity in running the whole show. He was not given this authority. Build him a nice shack out the back of your place and tell him to come and make tea for all the weary travellers that pass by your gate. That much he can do. Other than this he is acting outside his authority has assigned by Osho. You can invite Jayesh, Yogendra, and Dhyanesh also. You say Rajneesh is pseudo. Who is being pseudo? If Swami Rajneesh is a fraudster then he is on his own authority.
Yahoo
Abhay
http://manolaw.blogspot.com/2009/09/dumber-than-box-of-rocks.html
Abhay, so it is in India… so what?
It is any way cheaper than any similar place in the west. Try the Zist centrum in germany, Omega institute, or the Esalen Isntitute en california and compare the prices.
It is still, even after more than 20 years cheaper than the ranch.
It is more expensive than Gandhi ashram or the resorts of Lonavla… but you are not going to compare…
And the fact that it is India is an accident, If osho would have been given the residence we might be going to Uruguay for the “ashram”. And then, what ?we should be forced to dance salsa, because it is south america?. It is absurd abhay..
So, anusrag… which swamiji gave you sannyas…come on share it with us.!
The mala argument is along the same lines as all the others that seek to justify the resort model. What comes out in the wash is that whatever Osho ‘sanctioned’ in the last few years before he left the body was not done so to the exclusion of past practices. It also needs to be acknowledged that there will always be temporal and practical reasons in the mix of why Osho did this or that. Also, some decisions taken – like the mala – actually have a clear practical origin for their being made. The same is with changing the robe color from orange to maroon, or changing his name from Bhagwan Rajneesh to Osho.
For all the years up until the end of The Ranch Osho was totally into people wearing their mala. This even included the years in the Western country of the United States. Then for a few years the mala was made low key. To argue from this that forever afterwards the mala is not fitting with Osho’s new ‘Zen’ vision is narrow minded.
A few people in the Inner-Circle liked some of the general approach that Osho took in his last years, and then have tried to enforce this as Osho’s finished product. What would have happened if Osho lived till he was 100? Imagine how many cycles of different dramas he would likely have taken his people through. What would it have been? The 70’s was devotion to the guru; the 80’s was the opulence and sex revolution era. What would have been the 90’s, and indeed the last decade? Of course it is not anyone’s role to predict this. The central role was given to the Inner-Circle, and it was simply to make the necessary practical decisions to ensure Osho’s legacy, and not just a part of the last few years of it, is protected and made available.
As with all the other issues, there is another way to look at the mala problem. Osho left an Inner-Circle comprised of all types of disciples (mala lovers and otherwise), and the body was to work by consensus. Most of the original Inner-Circle members have left. Many have stated clearly that they have done so in protest. Others have left quietly. If these others left in quite protest this is also important. To have a base line to compare the current management decisions, it would be interesting to have the original members of the Inner-Circle explain whether they left in protest or not, and what their views are about the current management approach.
Yahoo
Abhay
This is what i call mixing up facts with theories. were you there abhay when osho asked us not to wear the mala anymore?
I was.
And who were in your terms the mala lovers? Neelam, vedant, Mukesh? None of these guys wear mala or has worn it since the 80´s.
It is true that no one enforced not to wear the mala. But there was no need. the social pressure was so strong, that it was the equivalent of being in the seventies and not to surrender.
Osho said no… and that was it. We agreed.
When the maroon robes came osho was very clear about the robes being used only inside that ashram…not in other comunes or meditation centers.however people started wearing them,specially in India and nepal as the new robes.
Even rajneesh wore them most of the times in the Himalayas.
Have a look at the videos of pune 2 and see for yourself… if anyone is wearing mala.
Shanti has asked Anurag, who has given him sannyas and i am asking again and again persons who write so full of rebellious fire, atleast show their faces on facebook, the easiest source.
Neither Harri Om did this nor Anurag is responding. Interestinggly enough, Meera Has a face book profile with a photo a woman in the white dress but no face.
Seems like ,neo Jihadis to me. Big talk but faceless names as if Israel is on the other side.
Shanti the issue is of extremes. I am not saying you have to prostrate to a piece of marble or dance salsa. What I am saying is that if you can’t then there is a fundamental problem. This is what is happening in Pune. If Osho was entirely inconsistent with Indian culture and religion, then the resort model would make sense. It would be a blaring icon of truth in a land of dogma.
We find that Osho was in many ways very Indian, even towards the end. One example of this is that he stayed in Pune. I am sure after the heat settled from The Ranch disaster he could have found some other country to live out his remaining days. Osho was an Indian who spent the majority of his time in India. Even if he was less Indian style in his spirituality in America and in Pune in his remaining few years, this does not reject his other approaches, his older sannyasins, and the path that this denotes to some new seekers. Also, even in America, and even in his last years in Pune, the thread of a more Indian approach to religiousness remained with Osho and his teachings – whether that be for example in his discourses or in him not disallowing the mala, or whatever.
Shanti you give a few examples of pricing to make your case about price for services. I am sure I could find plenty more examples of pricing to make my case.
Probably it would have been better if he had set up shop in Uruguay and we could all be really good at salsa by now.
Shanti being there so to speak can have advantages, as you point out. It can also have disadvantages in the sense that you tend not to have a perspective of context and of other times. Simply saying that someone was not at The Ranch or at Pune2 Ashram does not automatically discount their views, especially if they are availed of facts. You also speak of social pressure as if it is a good thing. I disagree entirely with that line of reasoning.
You do however make a good general point. The simple fact is that Osho ended up back in India for his last years. This means that all the argument about JA&Gang’s concept of ‘Western Zen’ can be countered. Why, because the flavour of Indian spirituality would still have been there in Pune2 Ashram. I do not have to be there to know that. Also, I have read a few accounts of people from that time that already reinforce this view. Also if you try to counter this by saying this flavour was a seeping in of ignorance, than you will have to say the same is the case for the majority of Osho’s years as a mystic. This would discredit Osho entirely and therefore you would have taken away the importance of Osho and the value therefore of any of your arguments. Osho and his vision and legacy would be reduced to a cheap sham.
If you want to argue your case you are going to have to do a lot better than your current position: I was there in these are the facts. There were other people that were there so to speak, there are other facts, and there are some people around today that will not buy your argument – which is incidentally the same argument put forward by JA&Gang.
Yahoo
Abhay
Oh dear Shanti,
You have written Osho is dead, than, why you are bothering for a dead person.
Use proper language for my Master - Osho. Osho is not a body, which is dead, otherwise, so much work on enlightenment/ awareness/ awakening would not have happened. He is the ONLY enlightened Master, after Budhha, who could speak maximum words in the world, as per Guineses Book of World Records, and within a span of 16/17 years virtually, after his body age of 42/43 till He left His body, Willingly He left His body. If He wished, He could live with His body, He was the Master of Masters in Tantra, but He lived, till the Existence wanted Him to stay back. When, His work for the world is done through, He decided to leave the body.
He has contributed a lot, perhaps, more than Lord Budhha even. Only Prayer word was happening earlier through different channels of our holy places. The spread of Meditation word and techniques, has happened through Him only, with 112 techniques. Earlier, there were only 3 or 4 techniques, and the people of various Mathh (Hindi word), say, Ashram, were not willing to teach to the people, perhaps, out of their possessivess or ego. This is only OSHO, who accepted as His lover/ beloved/ Sanyasin/ friend/ fellow passenger, for sanyasin. He said, who will care, if Osho ashram does not honored to the thirsty people. Now, the situation is different but because of the control of managing the affairs of Ashram, it does not mean, you can use the word OSHO is dead. Please mind your language, at least for an elderly person, from your age. If you are linked with Indian culture, it does not allow to use such language. In Hindi, we use for our elders, POORE HO GAYEI, MERE PITTA JI…….OR CHALANA KAR GAYEI……….OR CHAL BASSEI
With my love for you……
In a way it would have been beautiful to have kept the Osho Zen approach and the devotional approach inside the ashram/ resort. East and West side by side - it always has been very complimentary and without the Indians and their loving approach and understanding about masters and disciples, the place is not the same anymore. And Jayesh and Amrito are not evolved enough to run a high energy pure Zen Resort as well.
This way we are stuck with ‘Neither This, Nor That’. And maybe that is good so, so we can all spread our wings and spread our Osho energy all over this planet. Each in their own individual ways.
We can see in those last weeks on this forum, how different all of our understandings of Osho are. I feel blessed that I have spent those precious years in his presence, where Osho’s energy was just poured into his disciples
present with him. Only now -reflecting- the process becomes clear, how blessed those of us has been.
And reading those commentaries on sannyas news, it becomes also clear, what all is missing from those commentaries here. What is missing is that deep inside communion and message delivered from Osho -one to one- to his disciples. I feel through my meetings with new sannaysins, that this is still happening today. So in that sense Osho is not dead, never died and never will die. But for those not connected with his presence, it is just impossible to grasp this basic fact through their minds and trying to get an understanding of Osho through the mind, is just not possible.
So the minds freak out and go on rambling on these pages forever and ever and ever…….ratatati and ratatata and so on.
As long as there are sannyasins alive, who have been in close proximity with Osho during his lifetime I will prefer those to be the wise Elders to all of those,
who are just now entering the field and discussing details like Mala Yes/No,
Aids Test yes/No etc.
Jayesh might live for another 20 or so years and even Amrito’s immune system might be strong - so let’s face it, there is no change in sight.
I agree it is a dictator ship of one, but all we have to do is ‘be a light unto ourselves’ and enjoy the mysteries of life and death on this planet, daily one step at the time with as much love and awareness we are able to.
I doubt that Jayesh/ Amrito are spending much time worrying about the gigantic mind games played on sannyas news.
Thanks Anand.. A post which is rooted in reality and acceptance of what is..
You are right Abhay..If Osho had been alive sure so much would have changed interms of methods and approach..not the core of his teaching..which can not change not only for Osho.. even for any master.. the core teaching of Jesus to Buddha to Osho is going to be the same..Thats precisely the point..we can not stick to symbols..
Thinking about it , Osho would have deviced some internet based meditation where everyone can login at a given time and listen to his guided meditation.. It is happening with these modern day teachers also.. Some sort of online satsangs / radio podcasts./ SKYPE meetings..
Shantam was talking about Osho resort planning to telecast live the evening meeting or something like that..Not sure whether there were some real plans or just suggestions..
Garimo… the box of rocks is a good one..
One for you from the famous Sardarji jokes from India..
” A sardar was given the job of painting the white lines down the middle of a highway. On his first day he painted six miles; the next day three miles; the following day less than a mile. Then the foreman asked the sardar why he kept painting less each day, he replied “I just can’t do any better. Each day I keep getting farther away from the paint can.”
What a timing.. Todays no thought for the day
” Forget all about figuring it out what it is. Rather, live it; rather, enjoy it!
Don’t analyze, celebrate it. “
Can’t help feeling that all the above only amounts to mere “sound and fury, signifying nothing”…
Osho, if he’s anywhere, is in whoever loves him, wherever they may be, whether alone or with fellow travellers. Which I reckon must number in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions…
And whether any ‘ultimate flowering’ of his teaching is ever going to happen, or not, doesn’t depend upon how the Poona ashram is run, or whatever ‘clones’ like Rajneesh might say, or what Arun gets up to, or whether malas are allowed to be worn or not (what an absurdity that ‘red herring’ is!), it’s surely more about whether individuals are up to taking responsibility for their lives and, for a start, rooting out whatever prevents their inner happiness and well-being.
As Buddha said, “Be a Light unto yourself”….
Then, perhaps, true communal “celebration’ might have a chance of beginning…
On the larger scale, who knows how long this might take to get off the ground? Generations, it looks like…
But for now, nothing much else truly matters than individual self-enquiry, ‘cos there’s a LONG way to go…Just read this entire thread , if you doubt that!
Should have said “most of the above thread amounts to mere sound and fury”, not all of it.
Anand,
You have written a nice comment, worthy of appreciation.
I want to comment on the last paragraph-
“I doubt that Jayesh/ Amrito are spending much time worrying about the gigantic mind games played on sannyas news.”
May be that is the difference between Spirit of Osho and his caretakers.
Even when Osho stoped reading newspapers and books, his secretaries were keeping him upto date about the world events and moreover what is happening inside the commune, all the moods and thoughts were conveyed, though it is very much possible that secretaries were bringing their interptations too.
I can say without doubt that Osho has the fingers on the pulse. J&A also have the fingers on the pulse, but it is their own pulse or the pulse of their YES SIR people.
Why dictators should read the comments of the masses, they are answerable only to some unseen higher force.
It is also very clear, that on a programming level at their resort things will remain as they are, complete approach will remain missing. You will get only the Tofu but paneer will be shrinked out, what to say about Butter Chicken!
Does it mean, the first generation sannyasins who feel something is wrong, remain silent in the name of meditation.
Yes, if they think it will enhance their inner peace and meditation.
For someone like me it can be another way. My voice says, if i am not speaking about my own ashram, i have no right to blame the other priests and politicians for the big shit.
My inner sannyas says, ” If i cannot raise the finger of protest, how dumb it is to listen Osho, the one of its kind, non conformist Master!
Shantam was talking about Osho resort planning to telecast live the evening meeting or something like that..Not sure whether there were some real plans or just suggestions..
I was talking about this, when resort was not born. There were scratches in the inner circle but it had not fallen flat on the floor. Till a certain team, every idea was conveyed before the gathering at white robe or 45 minutes after the discourse, if the agenda was time consuming. Breaking news were done with style in a cheerful way.
Telecast of white robe live via Internet was there, when we were His people, spread all over the world. It was a bonding gesture. Now His people are almost like audience in the multiplex.
No emotional bonding is needed. Enjoy comfy seats, clean toilets, packet of popcorn but bring your girl friend with and take her back home after the show. Otherwise it can create law and order situation.
Once there was a time only very courageous used to come as a couple as i have seen, ashram energy will put the relation is such alchemical fire, that new equations were born out of the old theorem.
For convenience sake, i can say, 1987-1990 was Poona 2 phase. it continued with the same spirit till 1999. Afterwards it is a totally new chapter, one can not say, is this a trailer of some movie or it is a same movie before the interval.The way audience are whistling, looks like, operator is not in the normal state, and audience would have enjoyed if it was some MASALA mistake.
Shantam was talking about Osho resort planning to telecast live the evening meeting or something like that..Not sure whether there were some real plans or just suggestions..
Shantam was talking about this, when resort was not born. There were scratches in the inner circle but it had not fallen flat on the floor. Till a certain time, every idea was conveyed before the gathering at white robe or 45 minutes after the discourse, if the agenda was time consuming. Breaking news were done with style in a cheerful way.
Telecast of white robe live via Internet was there, when we were His people, spread all over the world. It was a bonding gesture. Now His people are almost like audience in the multiplex.
No emotional bonding is needed. Enjoy comfy seats, clean toilets, packet of popcorn but bring your girl friend with and take her back home after the show. Otherwise it can create law and order situation.
Once there was a time only very courageous used to come as a couple as i have seen, ashram energy will put the relation is such alchemical fire, that new equations were born out of the old theorem.
For convenience sake, i can say, 1987-1990 was Poona 2 phase. it continued with the same spirit till 1999. Afterwards it is a totally new chapter, one can not say, is this a trailer of some movie or it is a same movie before the interval.The way audience are whistling, looks like, operator is not in the normal state, and audience would have enjoyed if it was some MASALA mistake.
Yes Satya Deva…
It seems to me that inner state is more a kind of frequency tuning which we need to do.. seems as long as we are in touch with outer noise, the inner will be noisy only.. Today i wasnt feeling connceted then started listening to some Prem Joshua music and the inner climate changed.. Somthing deep in me relaxed and i felt it depends on the choice we make.. Something like what Garimo wrote few posts earlier.. that his choice is peace.. This sharing also is beautiful in its own way But i want balance it out by tuning into silence also..rather than worried all the time what is going on in Pune whichhas its own place..
Thanks Shantam for that post
Upss Same comment two times!
This thread started by Kranti with the spirit of Celebration has recorded maximum numbers of comments.
to enjoy this feast, i am inviting Kranti in his town, visually for a bowl of chicken curry which will cost me hell of a money.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?262462
Chicken Natwarlal
What does a bowl of curry for Rs 6,000 say about today’s India?
Please, compare the website of neo gurus with the website of Chicken anarkali (www.anarkali.in).
Same taste, same flavour, same energy!
Such is the human instinct for something NEW, that with a nice packing one can sell urine with a cardamom taste!
Seems to be one more exploitation of identity crisis.. Something Special for the ego.. wealthy Hyderabadis can feel proud that they can buy this and enjoy while the ordinary mortals have to do with local briyani.. There is no limit to exploitation of identity issues..
They are also buiding a new city including worlds tallest tower here for the super rich
Again back to the issue One-
Relevance of Osho in its totality.
It is not, Infosys or IBM. it is not Tata or Wal mart, neither it is ravi shankar or rajneesh….
just few hundred thousands have got their Wow!¨feeling with Osho and His 6 acres of ashram…
He in His Totality is a push, a motivation of human soul to expand, grow, celebrate, share…..please don’t chop the wings of this morning bird…
Let millions more know the whisper of this bird, just the pure whisper without any etiquette’s!
You are pouring yourself totally Shantam..
I went through most of the posts and I feel I can not argue with Shanti or Kranti.. there is no logic in their words but only gibberish.
I do have to say that I like the idea of broadcasting White Robe Brotherhood via Internet.. good idea
love
amitabh
Just for Shantam as i am leaving for Brazil
I got my Sannyas from Swami Arun
I am not on Facebook neither into any social networks
Love to you Anurag
Somthing for the heart..enough of mind stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRBRZ-jqyx0
Hey Kranti,
>Something like what Garimo wrote few posts earlier.. that his choice is peace..
To be honest I’ve been greatly influenced in the last 4-5 yrs. by the life work of Marshal Rosenberg. I’ve taken a bunch of classes in NVC and participated in a nine month integration program. It’s mostly just learning a new language, doesn’t change or offer any belief systems, only creates newer ways to connect with and communicate what is already there. I find it useful at times in my day to day living with other people.
http:cnvc.org
-g
oops.
http://cnvc.org
It’s a educational program… without gurus
Anurag,
It is my opinion that people who take any stand for any social cause through their actions and words, must bring their face too before the people, irrespective of the fact, face is photogenic or not.
So create a profile at facebook, let people send flowers or rotten eggs, so what!
and if you click few photos at some Brazilian beach, please share the photos. My e mail address is at my website.
Anusrag you say
“I got my Sannyas from Swami Arun”…
No wonder may dear… that is a version of sannyas that probably not even Osho would have agreed upon.
Many prominent Indian sannyasins started their own gurudom When Osho went to the states. Among the notable ones were Maitreya in the Pune ashram and Swami yoga Chinmaya in the Himalayas.
Shyam Singha was in the same trip in Europe.
Suddenly we had all these swamijies who were “interpreting” or ” helping you to underestand” Osho´s vision, now that he was in silence, initiating disciples and overall being a guru on Osho´s behalf.
Sw. arun is from that generation and trip. If you read what he says you will see that it is HIS OWN understanding, and if you were with Osho for long enough many things said by Arun sound awkward and coming from somewhere else than Osho understanding of sannyas and other matters.
Shanti dear,
We have discussed the problems enough from all sides..
What you think are the solutions, something like common minimum programme in a coalision govt?
Solutions, Shantamy darling?
Let everyone go to where his/ her heart thrills.
I would not thrill in Tapoban… I am too old a sannyasin to grove at that revival style… but who knows. some one like Amrito may feel at home. It is Ok with me.
That is my pledge.
However. rajneesh story is different. then i feel ashamed as a sannyasin. I hope someone compassionate enough get him into some psychiatric facility before more people are deceived,
And…people need to “drop” the “who’d you get sannyas from” = Osho _____ abc school of thought..
I can agree that many, including myself, have from time to time taken the interpretations of sannyas givers over even what Osho has said—but with time, this maturity will come to every genuine seeker.
I’m completely OK as well with differing opinions on different people like Sw.Arun, the Doc etc., because I have no vested interest in any one in particular.
I do however genuinely feel that Osho is absolutely awesome. And sometimes my hands tremble, and my hairs straiten when I realize what type of man actually existed just some 25 years back…
What a man, what a story…what a contribution. Such revolution, rebelliousness, courage and sense of humour. What a movement, what a show…
I think directors have a hard time with Osho’s life because its soo well documented, and no one can replace Osho in a film because Osho himself was the greatest actor, director, screenwriter…
Its very easy to be mesmerized by the man in every dimension from physical look to intellectual thought to spiritual presence.
And…with all this happening, I naturally want to share who the man is! Its like having watched a great film, and you can’t help but telling everyone you meet about it! Even if you know that you can enjoy the film for yourself and its not about others, the force just carries you to share…expand…
But the hard part with Osho is bridging him. It seems like people are ready to judge him on first look because of the saturation of indian gurus. It seems like I can’t introduce him right because I feel like a Jehovas Witness or something. It seems like when I describe him I’m describing the “only begotten son of God”…and I know that I’m ruining and completely distoring what he REALLY IS…
That’s the difficulty..
And I know Sw. Arun genuinely is spreading Osho, but apart from his own interpretations, he had to bridge Osho to Nepal in a completely different way. But many people have been connected and have fell deeply in love with Osho through their own understanding.
And many of those people may not agree with Sw. Arun on everything, but they do hold a great amount of respect for the man for introducing them to the MAN. And in eastern culture, gratitude literally falls to your feet…
And I’m sure, the Resort has the same difficulty expanding Osho globally. Its a very very difficult task…because Osho is very difficult to introduce as a person: he was many persons! And…very difficult to introduce as an Idea…there were too many…and as a face—too many lookalikes. And I have a feeling they made the rule about not having Osho’s picture without a hat and black beard because of islamic terrorists (there’s been more than one person who’s told me he looks like Bin Laden in his older pics).
So…its complicated.
But Osho never said he would be easy.
Love,
Amrito
and to note…
People may try to drop parallel lines between Rajneesh and Sw. Arun because Anurag has shared he took sannyas from Sw. Arun.
There is a completely different dimension with Sw. Arun which is the fact that he has been doing what he’s doing now since the early 70s. Running a meditation center, conducting camps etc has always been his little thing with Osho.
And he has never criticized Osho or disrespected Osho above himself the way Rajneesh does about Osho’s roll royces. He was in Rajneeshpuram, he arranged a safe place for Osho during turbulent world times in Kathmandu, Nepal.
And although people literally are makin Sw. Arun their master, I’ve spoken personally with him and he hates it! He keeps saying he aint no guru, but its a difficult environment to work with where every wants a guru! People themselves don’t help Sw. Arun out by calling him enlightened—when he repeatedly denies it!
-Amrito
>>And…people need to “drop” the “who’d you get sannyas from” = Osho _____ abc school of thought..
Hey Amrito,
I’m not so sure that asking and learning who/what is one anothers influence is a wrong thing needing to be suppressed. Learning the source of anothers influence could be useful in leading to having shared understandings. So…
I’m wonder if what you might be wanting is to not have the judgments that get placed once the question has been answered?
For me, having a observation and understanding of the reality of a situation is the step before the mind interprets and places the meanings that this is good and that isn’t. I’m thinking not taking that second mental step is what might need considering.
-garimo
Shanti in your posts you have revealed a religious extremist mind-set. It is interesting to know that you were at The Ranch, still believe that it was great, and also support the repeat of it by JA&Gang. Thanks for the insight.
Anand, go and sit at the feet of Sheela. Surely she has absorbed enough of Osho’s energy to share with you. You are playing the mind game by trying to silence the truth coming out – playing the same superiority trip as Shanti. The so called gigantic mind games being played out here are narrowing in on the root problems surrounding the Osho movement. Though you may dismiss them, (unfortunately) Amrito, Jayesh, and others are not so ignorant.
Yes Kranti there is a use of the internet for connecting. The interesting thing is the real-time live connection with a teacher/master. My sense is that this is what is most valuable. This is also why it will not be so enthusiastically received if live transmission of a recording is simultaneously viewed or received – a waste of time really. This points to the value of a living Master.
I read about Rani’s experience as someone suggested here. One thing that may get missed is that in her darkest hour there was just too much vastness to Osho’s message for her to find a support. When Osho spoke he did so to respond to a current issue. Maybe it was to a whole discourse group, maybe just to one individual, and maybe sometimes to this whole crazy humanity. What this means is that when now we read this message it is either luck or deep intuition that insures that this message is most suitable for our current needs and issues. For example if Osho was in the body, maybe through live internet transmission, he could have answered a specific question from Rani. It is not that Osho is too vast, it is just the nature of the practical world we live in.
This points to one other practical side issue. A lot of his time was focused an absorbing literature and taking care of the spiritual needs of his people. This leaves little time for practical managerial issues. This may be another reason for Osho giving people in power a free rein.
Of course many close disciples were eyeing off the top job when Osho grew frail. He played the biggest joke on them all and left no successor. What this means is that what he left behind cannot be made a religion out of. Of course people will try and take over and play guru, but in the end his instructions were clear. Osho left it like Kranti’s paint can on the road joke spells out. He left it that what he created will slow down and really is nothing special. People in the Inner-Circle and others with similar ambition became busy trying to further Osho’s amazing trajectory. In the end they will fail. This is in part because they are fools, and in part because Osho gave them an inherent restriction.
The value of what he left behind is still beautiful: the Pune ashram (to some extent), and his art, and his words. The words will still inspire so many, yet with him gone, they will always have difficulty hitting the mark (just like with Rani). It is really in the people that he has drawn to higher levels of existence that will shape the trajectory of his sacred jewel. They may be enlightened or they may just be frauds. I suggest if a person is serious about the path that they make efforts to find out. This also includes questioning the (dangerous) view of Jayesh’s about not needing any support other than a Master who has left the body. This is his way of transferring spiritual authority to himself. People argue that he and Amrito are being selfless and hidden. If you get deeper into the movement you will find that they are viewed as the religious authorities, and that they encourage this to happen. It is a subtle deception by the crafty and cunning.
Yahoo
Abhay
When I was thinking of an example of making a observation and taking that next mental step of burying it in meanings that hadn’t been in evidence, I thought of Prem Abhay and how he presents his commentary.
Yes Abhay, the Ranch was great. Simply because 99% of us were either completely naive, totally trusting Osho in picking Sheela to run things or just self-absorbed. We all went there for our own personal trips, whether to actually live as in the moment as possible and maybe “discover “our true self in the process or, like some sannyasins whose personal trips included get laid as often as possible, or some selfish power trip. We created and lived our own reality. This was a trip in self discovery. Too bad so many couldn’t let go of their shit and see and live that.. Abhay, please let go of your obsession, see the light. There was no comparing the Ranch to anything on the “outside” world. What a blast!!!!! Shanti, I know you were there, but as I remember it the disco the one located at the mall in 1983 and closed a little after 11pm ,it was the only disco at the time, nice cozy place, it always packed, I went there for 3 months straight every night after working from 6am to 8pm in 1983-1984. Do you remember the crazy schedule to build those town houses before the government ban went into effect? - there was the last song then gachamis. The last buses departed at around 11:30 pm if my memory is correct. i missed it a few times and ended up walking a mile or so in the pitch black of night– thousands of stars so visible in the clear clean air WOW! I still get goose bumps!!! I’d like to share some stories with you. love bubbs
Abhay, not sure what you man. I already did my years with Sheela, Pune 1 and 2 and another 20 years. What do you think you have to offer now?
I wonder sometime, How long people will go on putting all the blame on Sheela, as if she was the devil incarnated and after wards, everything is again in the hands of the clean shaven, clean hearted angels of the universe.
In this discussion form, if a bridge becomes a possibility between Abhay and Shanti , i am hopeful Israel Philistine issue of Osho’s world can be resolved at 17, koregaon park too.
Garimo
Thanks for the site http://cnvc.org..
I am actually lookinga t something oike this.. Except Osho ihave done anything else.. It was actually so fulfilling..Whatever i knew was thru what Osho spoke..
But I am thinking of learning sonmething like this more for the joy of it.. Is that something NLP?
Amrito
It was an AWESOME post.. Wish i said those words about Osho
Samething ahs been happening to me for the last 15 years or so.. You just cant help but marvel at the depth of the Man.. All the those power , twists , turns , hitting the target , sense of humour it seems one life time is not enough to understand Him
I was listening to a youtube video about his Library of 150000 books.. But I am more in love with his DELIVERY and PRESENCE…
I have been longing to connect to Osho in more deeper ways . Thanks for such a wonderful sharing
Just for my own enjoyment.. copy pasting..
” I do however genuinely feel that Osho is absolutely awesome. And sometimes my hands tremble, and my hairs straiten when I realize what type of man actually existed just some 25 years back…
What a man, what a story…what a contribution. Such revolution, rebelliousness, courage and sense of humour. What a movement, what a show… “
About Sw Arun..
Whatever he is doing one can feel the Love he has for Osho.. I listened to his few videos as I have not met him.. I respect him for the love he has for HIm..
The way he describes his first meeting with Osho he almost became a child giggling and feeling so happy and re living that morning when he went literally barged into Osho room without permission.. Sitting next to Osho and looking at him that close .. It must have been enough for 100 lives ..
Abhay
I talked about that Internet thing as just a point that Osho would have used technology witout hesitation..It can never be replacement for sitting next to Him..
We have discussed enough of this J&A stuff.. In your post you mentioned
” People argue that he and Amrito are being selfless and hidden.”
Thats what I feel.. The level of understanding they have about Osho is very highly concious.. You can not question their understanding.. what you can suggest is asking for few things which are needed for people who are newer and who need little more heart orieneted ways to connect to Osho
As Shanti pointed out the solution seems to be ” Let everyone go to where his/ her heart thrills “
What did the former Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic do when he finished his attempt at genocide of the Bosnian Muslims and Croats? The answer is of course obvious isn’t it. He became a therapist and meditation teacher.
What does a therapist or meditation teacher do after they have reached enlightenment and finished meditating? The answer is of course obvious isn’t it.
The extent to which a person whose interest is power can go off the rails depends on how much power they have. The head of a family is capable of killing a family. The head of a nation is capable of killing millions.
Sheela had a lot of power. JA&Gang have a lot of power. They have of course stolen it. This in a sense is worse than Sheela. Osho gave Sheela the top managerial job, with him still retaining his spiritual authority – see how he took the power back of Sheela and the way she reacted (not wanting him to speak). Sheela and her gang were convicted of mass poisoning and conspiring to murder a number of people. JA&Gang were given the top managerial job, and have taken over the spiritual job as well. They have a lot of power, and much of it is stolen. This shows that there will to power is perverse and intense.
Osho never left anyone his vision. What he left behind was his legacy, or his ‘ashes’. This was Osho’s last and greatest Zen joke. It is so funny that the pseudo Zen masters from JA&Gang have yet to get the Zen joke.
Can you imagine how pathetic it would be to have JA&Gang up on stage at the front of the blessed auditorium? Can you imagine the outpouring of Zen wisdom? I think the crowd would finally have get the tremendous joke and laugh so much they will bring the roof crashing down (literally of course).
Yahoo
Abhay
Here’s a thought/question:
How many of those people who are dead keen on reviving regular mass celebrations at the Poona ashram would be quite as keen if the ‘prospect of sex’ was absent?!
I ask because I recall someone’s comment earlier in this thread, something like: ‘…finding Mr or Miss Right somewhere in the crowd….’
I do wonder about some people’s apparent ‘attachment’ to, obsession with even, these events…Is it akin to some sort of drug perhaps - you know, ‘losing your identity’ in a large crowd, getting laid later (hopefully!)…?!
Yes, I know it’s uplifting, joyful and so on…
But where would sannyas be without sex, lots of it, and “always” available (one hopes and prays)?!!
PS: (LOL)
Especially, I might add, for all you hitherto sexually-repressed Indians….
PS: Not blaming anyone at all, far from it…
But can we be honest perhaps, please?!
I dont think they have any power and all.. It is only in the imagination of people who are looking at them.. At the most they have administrative power over a meditation center / few buildings / some rules & regulations for runnning the place.. Nothing else.. If they had the kind of power lot of issues which happened over the last 10 years would not have happened..
As Anthony said they just tried extending few practical things according to the current time. They were able to do few things and not able to do few others.. Wherever they couldnt succeed people moved away and created new centers with things they want..
After sometime there will be banning in Sw Arun , Neelam and Keerthi’s place also..Not beacsue those people are bad and they like banning..No..the very fact that they want to run the meditation center in a certain heart oriented manner means there will be few rules and regulations ..someone is going to break it ..It is part of running the organization
Except for few differences of opinions on the manner in which those practical things that need to be run which will be there in any organization in any part of the world and in any culture and in any stage of life irrespective of who is managing …
Infact most of the people including Rajneesh project as though they would have done marvellous things given the control and they can control the future etc etc..Such an approach is political not spirutual .. Every politician promises such things to the masses..
A really spiritual person understands the uncertainities of life and does not gauarantee you anything.. Osho never did .. He didnt give you a promise that he will be consistent in His talks..leave alone a consistent vision.
All this talk of two people having excessive power etc etc is the mind game people play .. They want to create such a ‘ Illusiory power ‘ inside their imagination so that it gives them a powerful & adequte enemy to fight against and creat big fuss ” ..Such a enemy doesnt exist in reality.. It is just mental crap.. Highly exagerrated.
You can again say it is not a question of pracatical / mundane issues..and it is a question of Osho vision..That they are tinkering with the Vision etc.. You can make an attempt to define what you meant by power..that will again touch the aspects of Vision..And that vision thing is very vague and dicey stuff.
WE HAD DISCUSSED / ARGUED / DEBATED ENOUGH and I am NOT getting to those again …
As Amrito said here You really need so many ways of respresenting Osho..and we have this multidimensonal respresentation unfolding now ..
Now people have beautiful choices infront of them .. Based on what approach one wants people can go to pune or Sw Arun or Rajneesh ( Even Rajneesh )… Individual freedom is still there
Satya ..you opened up a great point .. Let us see what kind of discussion we have around this
” Especially, I might add, for all you hitherto sexually-repressed Indians”
I was abou to say this..But you said that in the next post..
To be honest that is a real possibility..Lots of local frustration can because of the denial of that ..
Someone even suggested they publish all these Swimming pool pictures in the magazine and tempt people to come there for that .. Even there the blame is being shifted to the management..It is a meanigless arguement
But just one small point though .. there is a small minority just asking for Osho birthday celebrations & Bhajans as a way of relating to Osho. That small minority may not have ideas for mass gathering as ways to have lots of Sex.. Hopefully
P.S. I am not again being mean to others.. As Osho sannyasins we all have healthy approach towards Sex and I am not trying to be holier than thou here .. Just posting this as a point for discussion more than anything else ..
Kranti and Anthony hold the argument that JA&Gang are just keeping few practical things the same, or maybe changing them a little as the times change. It seems, from their position, this is referred to as extension.
What is removing pictures, banning sannyasins that have a different view, demolishing the pagoda, halting annual Osho celebrations, and removing devotional practices have to do with keeping just few practical things the same. Are you not aware that Amrito and Jayesh have clearly stated reasons for their changes in spiritual and not practical terms. True it is that Amrito said that demolishing the pagoda was a practical necessity. The truth of this matter is that he is anyhow here lying: the local council put a stop to his destructive efforts. So even on practical matters we have lies. On other matters we have clear explanation from Jayesh and Amrito (and I am sure others) in terms of spiritual rather than practical reasoning. From the above I find that Kranti and Anthony have lost the plot.
Yes Kranti power games are just mind games. What you fail to understand is that the game can involve many minds, and also a mind can send a signal to the body to do all kinds of marvellous things – from making love to making war.
Kranti the extension of the issues in Pune to Keerti or Neelam or anyone else that has set up their own place is not applicable. The central issue is of Osho’s legacy: this includes the Pune place. It was not given to Jayesh and Amrito to do what they like. This is the point and why your line of reasoning is incorrect and misleading.
You say….Except for few differences of opinions
Is this your joke for the day?
The last part of your last comment is pathetic.
Yahoo
Abhay
” The last part of your last comment is pathetic.”
Which one Abhay?
removing pictures - Stopping Worshipping
banning sannyasins - case to case analysis required. Can not be genralized.. I know people who was stealing abd then got banned
demolishing the pagoda - Check with Oshobob..there was no pagoda in the first place..New Auditorium built. Old taken out..
halting annual Osho celebrations & removing devotional practices
With due respect to you these are the only two points worth discussing and thats where the differences of opinion regarding approach /comes into play.. We couldnt arrive at a consensus and athst why we have so many centers now..
I also tottaly agree with you that Pune is special.. I didnt mean other centers can be a direct replacement ..If that is not the case we will not be discussing
But the specialness of of pune is only for old timers and may be current sannyasins..It will not be the same for coming generations.. If you atr to make it special then we have a holy place..wherever there is a holy place there will be a religion
We go on forcing children to go to sleep when we think it is time. But sleep is not to be manipulated by time, sleep is something inner. When the child feels sleepy he will go to sleep, but mother and father go on forcing the child to go to sleep, as if sleep can be ordered. Children must think that you are foolish, they think that something has gone wrong in your mind. How can a child force sleep? He can pretend, so when you are there he can close the eyes and when you have gone he can open the eyes, because sleep cannot be forced. Nobody, not even you, can force sleep. If you don’t feel sleepy how can you go to sleep?
But this is how society destroys.
osho
ओशो किसी शरीर का नाम नहीं एक अवस्था है, एक स्थिति है। बुद्धत्व की ऐसी स्थिति, ऐसी घटना जिसका न तो कोई समय से संबंध है न ही जन्म-मृत्यु से कोई नाता। जो थीं, जो है और जो सदा रहेगी। चेतना की ऐसी ही दशा का नाम है ओशो, जो न कभी जन्मती है और न कभी मरती है। शरीर में रहती जरूर है परंतु शरीर के साथ विदा नहीं होती। बस सदा विद्दमान रहती है और विचरण करती है इस धरा पर हर कण में, हर क्षण में। जिसका अनुभव ही उसका एकमात्र प्रमाण है।
संत तो बहुत हुए हैं परंतु ओशो जैसा संबुद्ध रहस्यदर्शी शायद ही कोई हुआ हो। अब तक ओशो ने जितने विषयों पर बोला है या लिखा है शायद ही इतना किसी और संत ने बोला होगा। ओशो के एक-एक शब्द संगीत की सुमधुर ध्वनियों जैसे हैं। ओशो की आवाज में जादू, आंखों में आकर्षण और व्यक्तित्व में गजब का सम्मोहन या यहां तक कि उनका मौन भी चुंबकीय था। ओशो ने न केवल अध्यात्म के जगत् को नया आयाम दिया बल्कि चली आ रही रुढ़िवादी परंपराओं को भी नई दिशाएं दी। ओशो ने धर्म पर नहीं धार्मिकता पर जोर दिया। ओशो लोगो को बंधनों एवं स्वयं बनाए। ओशो की नव संन्यास की दीक्षा एवं ध्यान की नई विधियां अपने आप में नायाब है। ओशो न केवल आस्तिक एवं ध
” Especially, I might add, for all you hitherto sexually-repressed Indians”
Satya Deva,Just curious when you were last time in India?
and how much exposure you have with the Indian chidlren of the above middle class level( Approx. half billion people).
If by chance, you visit Pune next time, make a study tour of all the restaurants, bars and discos just in the Koregaon Park area.
The way you are using the Cliches” of the last century, i presume your age is not less then 50. Am i wrong?
Shantam.. he admitted that it is meant to be a open question for honest discussion.
Infact Pune itself is implementing that ‘ Advice ‘ to all Indians when they enter the resort..
But India has changed a lot in the last decade or so..
Thats why i said when people say swimming pool photos attract people it is a meaningless statement as India is getting past that stage where similar attractions are available elsewhere.
That’s right Kranti, there was no destruction of any Osho pagoda, because there never was an Osho pagoda, as far I know. You can’t destroy something that never existed. I’ve mentioned this twice before here at sannyasnews, but it seems to have gone unheaded, at least by some.
There was an Osho samadhi, but that got changed into Chuang Tzu Meditation Hall, or something like that, where meditations are held. It’s also possible there were never any of Osho ashes in that urn that was placed beneath his marble bed in the first place. There’s no verifiable evidence of that fact, except for a few peoples statements propagating the idea.
Swami Arun, as I have said before here, says he has an Osho samadhi at his Tapoban center, so maybe he has the ashes. Go ask him.
Or maybe they are at another location, undisclosed to anyone but a few “insiders.”
No one really knows, except the designers of the drama…
If there is no ahes & samadhi there and it is going to be just a meditation hall then there is no need for lot of hue and cry.. It will be interesting twist to the issues. People like Rajneesh are targetting mainly the samadhi.
Pren bubbie, i was dancing till two o´clock am during festivals. when I was volunteering to catering the visitors. You are right during regular time the disco was closed earlier… I would have never made it to the worship p-planting job on time otherwise
Oshobob. pagoda was the name used for the roof over the green marble podium… because it had a ” pagoda” shape. That roof together with the marble wall right behind Osho´s chair was dismantled. the actual green marble podium is still there.
Shanti, thanks for that explanation on the new use of the word “pagoda.” Finally someone has explaining this ongoing mystery to me. Ok, so there was a ‘pagoda’ and the pagoda was dismantled…a word that was usually reserved for the structure that contained the ashes and other relics of a Buddhist master now has a new meaning, ok, so far, so good…
Then, continuing on with that type of linguistic stretching, we can say that Osho’s ’samadhi’ is that round room with the big chandelier and marble bed — whether or not it is called Chuang Tzu Meditation Hall by the Resort authorities, and cathartic Osho meditations like Gibberish/No-Mind are held there, and whether there is, or is not, any ashes of Osho in that urn that was put in the bed crypt on January 19, 1990. Is that right? Still you could say it’s Osho’s samadhi? And initiate a lawsuit to allow anyone to visit it — am I getting this right….?
Infact ‘ pagoda ‘ seems to be even more complex thing as per wikipedia.. It had to be ‘ a tiered tower with multiple eaves’ or ‘ stupa ‘ or ‘ a tomb-like structure where sacred relics could be kept safe and venerated “..
Did we have something close to this ?
If not , then all we had was a meditation hall for which new auditorioum as an alternative has come up…Think i read somewhere that osho desired a more sophiticated meditation hall.. for someone with that kind of intelligence he would have desired / thought about a new one for Dynamic meditation..
Each Moment is Perfect!
Each moment in this universe is perfect. There has never been a not perfect moment in this universe.
Once you understand this, specially Abhay and Rajneesh all your stuff will fly away. Although it is also perfect. Amrito and Jayesh running Osho resort is also perfect, the bannings are also all perfect and whatever you do now to change things is also perfect.
Osho choose Jayesh, Amrito and the Inner Circle because that was perfect in that moment to do and he trusted the universe that it continues to provide a perfect moment every moment in the future.
So be it and let it be.
Abhays anger about being banned is also perfect. Rajneesh’s ambition to be recognized as some sort of spiritual leader is also perfect and part of human nature.
Sometimes it would be good if we all understand this basic and simple piece of Eastern wisdom.
Think that ‘ Chuang Tzu Meditation Hall ‘ was actually desinged by Osho himself as his bedroom ..Thats what my understanding is..
In that context Oshobob when you said in the previous post as ‘ beneath his marble bed ‘ did you mean it was a bed used by him?
I Understand it. that is why i think it is perfect that I fight against rajneesh,… love shantam, kranti, enjoy Oshobob and frank, respect canadian amrito, Like prem bubbie and anand, and despise anurag and amitabh and specially the psycho of meera.
thank you Anand fellow traveller. I like this beautiful charade… and all these brothers and sisters.
Oshobob I have no reason to doubt that osho´s ashes are there… but what does it matter? He is in my heart. where his ashes are is the most irrelevant thing in the world: I am a sannyasin, a seeker of truth, nit a religious fanatic worried about where to go cry the loss of the man who set me free. His life was devoted to our freedom… even from Him. So, where is Osho? He is here in me in what he awoke in my heart and being. Ashes? pagodas? pictures. come on. that is for children!
Osho is the name given to an unspoken space inside myself. beyond mind, emotions.
that is Osho. the actual man lived in that space, triggered that space in me. I am thankful for that, but I am not going to have it as walking stick… I am free. .. and grateful.
” Each Moment is Perfect! ”
Ananad ..Just as an extension of this ..What Advaita says is ..
the reason why it is said as ” Each Moment is Perfect! ” is because there is no one to choose or do otherwise .. there is ‘ no person ‘ behind any of the actions.. Whatever is supposed to happen in a moment due to the collective conditioning is what all that is suppoed to happen..and it can not be otherwise
Just life operating through a set of body-mind organisms
OOps!!!
But this is just a mental / conceptual understanding me ..( ‘Me’ is used as there is no other way )
Wow.. What a post Shanti.. This real sharing
” His life was devoted to our freedom… even from Him”
He even said His own leaving the body is supposed to give the taste of great freedom for all disciples..Didnt he?
Kranti wrote :
” People argue that he and Amrito are being selfless and hidden.”
Thats what I feel.. The level of understanding they have about Osho is very highly concious.. You can not question their understanding.. what you can suggest is asking for few things which are needed for people who are newer and who need little more heart orieneted ways to connect to Osho”
I agree with Kranti (as usual.) You have got to think of the future, 20, 50 , 100 years hence. Osho was not like anyone in the past. Sometimes he talks as if he is enlightened like say Buddha, and at other times he says the enlightenment game is nonsense. As young Amrito says, He was quite awesome. The important thing is that he should be available for newcomers.
I think, on the whole, people who complain about Dr Amrito and Jayesh do not understand Osho deeply enough.
Re : Ashes
Osho was burnt publicly. I was there that night (My fifteen minutes of fame) and of course lots of ashes of wood and bone were left there in the morning. Some were taken for the Pune Samadhi and I presume someone took some that later ended up in Tapoban. Maybe I should have taken some!
I have a photo of the ghat where He was burnt which I will put up on the web one day
“I think, on the whole, people who complain about Dr Amrito and Jayesh do not understand Osho deeply enough ”
thats the a key understanding. They are making Osho timeless, suitable for all ages rather than adjusting to current requirements alone..they are trying hard not to fit Osho into a category / time frame.
Time will make us understand..
oh yea I remember. next morning the bones were not completely burnt, actually someone was crushing the bones… and some people were trying to collect ashes as much as they could.
I was so blissed out that i just went home to cry and laugh
I was a bit shocked that night. It was my first trip to Pune and I had been there about two weeks, and then He leaves the body! I was in Buddha Hall when it was announced. Went down to the ghats with everyone else in our white robes. Remember hundreds of sannyasins singing “The Universe is singing a song” as his body was burnt.
At least I did something worthwhile in this life!
Thanks Shanti, I’m glad you understand the stupidity of being obsessed with the minutiae called “the resort”. That’s what I meant about destroying the resort- irradiating it, so no one can even go near the land for thousands of years. That place will turn out just like Jerusalem, or Mecca, where bloodshed will happen, all over metaphors. The obsession over ashes, marble,and a bed is so incredibly insane, and these people call themselves sannyasins. They make Sheela look like the “virgin” Mary!!!! Unless there are no physical structures that are standing at the resort , hatred and violence will always be there. That’s how stupid and insane so many “sannyasins” have become. Now do the rest of you get it?
…..and some people were trying to collect ashes as much as they could.
In my memory. there is a man who was collecting the Osho ashes in his cigratte pack.
I wonder when some of these people will sell their esoteric treasures at ebay!
Hi Kranti,
>But I am thinking of learning sonmething like this more for the joy of it.. Is that something NLP?
Are you asking if NVC is like NLP? or were you just mixing up the letters?
I don’t know much about NLP, but I think it’s about modeling and creating new behaviors that were not previously there.
NVC seems to me more about self examination and observing the judgmental mind, and if any transformation happens it’s because of the awareness gained from redirecting the outward focus to inward… and other things too like listening.
There are some introductory classes of NVC on the Pune schedule if you’re in that area… but if you go nearer to the source there won’t be the resort/commune added twists that hasn’t always benefited the programs the group department has borrowed from.
-g
Prem Bubbie. I thought I was the only one left who understood things the way we do.
It must have been because we have gone back and forth with this trip… and for long enough to see how people get attached to symbols and metaphors.
I remember a story osho used to tell about a zen master who, every time he was going to speak, a cat would enter the hall and disturb him.
He asked the cat to be tied down while he spoke, every time he spoke. This happened many times.
Finally the master died and people kept on tiding the cat down as a memoryof his speaches.
With time the cat died and they made a statute of the tied cat and put it in next to the podium where the master used to speak.
Nowadays the cat is worshiped in the monastery.
I have the feeling that many old sannyasins are in that trip… absolutely attached to the non essential… worried about malas, and buildings, ashes, samadhis, etc.
The tied down cat… has become more important that the search for consciousness.
Garimo
I meant NLP only..Anyway you clarified.. Let me take a look at the same..
Thanks for sharing something valuable..
Alok John.. You were very fortunate..You made it on time..
But you must had been with Osho earlier at Ranch?
People like me are not fortunate..I used to feel very negative about that ..Now as i understand more about myself and Inner silence i begin to relax..
I read someone’s ( Kiran - May/June 2007
archive ) experience of not able to make it on time to see Osho on oshoviha website.. Touch and go ..very touching story.. Please read it..
Alok John,
Absolutely, put that photo of Osho’s burning ghat up on the web. I for one would like to see it. And with as much commentary of your personal experience of that day too. Oddly enough, the documentation of that highly important event is quite poor, as are the events that led up to it. There’s more extensive video footage of Osho getting out of his car prior to discourse than of the day of the Buddha of all Buddhas Mahaparinirva. Quite odd, wouldn’t you say…?
As you Alok, have some absolutely one-off slants on many things (e.g., your view that most sannyasins of the 70’s and 80’s were reincarnations of WW2 people that had committed dastardly crimes in the conflict). So your experience of that day would no doubt be quite unique. And Shanti too — I would love to hear your account. Write on…!
Osho bobbie. here it goes.
That Day i missed white robe to the hands of a tall Belgian sweetie.
So that night I am sitting in my balcony drinking some chai when i hear all this music and dancing and white robe people along the lane. I come down and ask what is happening… and they tell me Osho left his body… I am like WHAT?!!!
I am in shock. I go back up grab my white robe and join the caravan.
We arrive to the gaths I am very far. The place is full and they place the body, put the wood, and lit it and then the singing. ” the universe is singing a song, the universe is dancing along… Oshhooooos,… and Oshhoos and I am dancing, singing, crying, and meditating. the energy is strong and the funeral pyre is full on. I stayed untill the morning. The body did not burn completely I could see the skull and some ribs and lots of wood ashes and people collecting them and also Vijay, his brother, and Amrito and other people collecting ashes and then they put in a brass, I think, bowl with a a lid and then i go home to cry and dance and mediate.
I knew they paraded the ashes later through the ashram passing krishna House and the bookshop towards the samadhi, but i was not there.
>> worried about malas, and buildings, ashes, samadhis, etc.
Shanti, My question then: Malas, building, ashes… but so what?! why so much energy preventing what others want. I agree, they’re not the thing and for me the whole story is they are also not preventing the thing.
For me too it’s like you said: ” Let everyone go to where his/ her heart thrills “
I wonder how will people ever be able to transform / transcend their illusions if they’re prevented from having them? All their time is spent in fighting to have… and others end up occupied with the fight preventing. Who will ever find time for the thing?
And we all like to use one illusion or another for meeting some inner need. Do you know where the monastery is that has the tied cat? I’d enjoy seeing a photo of this statute.
Be it a old zen story we tell our neighbors or a mala around our neck that we show… for me, neither are or prevent the thing.
But the energy spent on these malas, building and ashes sure shape the quality of how we are traveling together along this path.
Shanti, as i wrote you in the personal mail, i can say here too that after watching Rajneesh video referred by you, i have forgotten what changes are being imposed by J&A team.
His gestures, his speaking and i thought let me get the courage to open his book, it seems everything UTTERLY UTTERLY MEDIOCRE.
Still people have their fundamental right to get their nourishment from anyone and everybody has a right to think himself/herself entitled for imparting their teachings to the willing pupils.
BUT LET OSHO BE OSHO, unmodified, unedited, wild and uncastrated, Whether He left the body or died, does not need the crutches of anybody.
Today i have read a nice sentence in my favourite novel, Shantaram” Worst wrongs have been done by the people who wanted to change(as per their understanding).
One clarification for my recollection of Osho´s departure. I am not sure if the funeral pire burned only one night… it might have burned through the next day also… I am not sure. Alok do you remember?
Garimo and Shantam. I am not in a power position to prevent anyone from having any fantasy. I am just stating my opinion.
Of course everyone is free to feel, think and believe what he/ she wants.
I do not like the editing neither Shantamy.
You have asked Alok, but let me clarify too that the last rites of Osho were done as per the cultural heritage of India but in His way.
For example, the body is carried to the burning ghats by the male members only, But in Osho’s case, his female disciples participated equally. It is a great break through.
And His ashes were collected after 2 nights and two days, as it is always so. if the body is cremated on the wooden pyre.
Osho has spoken intensively in one of the best esoteric treatise, ” Main Kehta Ankhan Dekhi”( I say what i see) about the significance of 4th day and 13th.
The way i have understood, on 4th day ashes are submerged in the rivers for the ordinary folks and preserved as Samadhi for enlightend and so called enlightends people, and 13th is the day, almost most of the souls have setlled in the new womb. Time to say, Good bye and have a good time in the neighbour family!
Briefly,
As far as I recall the pyre burnt for one night only and there were just embers left in the morning.
Kranti, no I was not at the Ranch or Pune 1. I was around the movement from the 70s and took sannyas in 86 in Europe. I was always penniless, well poor anyway. You heard of people getting a “pull” to go to Pune. I never felt a “pull” until the autumn of 89 and then there was this strong “pull” and I managed to borrow the money arriving Pune Jan 3, 1990. Saw him about twelve times. He would come out and meditate with us for a few minutes before a video discourse.
Will try and write tomorrow about Jan 19 and put the photo up, but am off to pub now, you gotta celebrate, haven’t you?
Death celebration on 19th Januray around 2100 (9PM)
Ashes were collected on 21st around 9AM.
And can some one tell where one can see the complete, the original version of ” I leave you my dream” on the net.
Sure, it’s a great breakthrough Shantam, about those female disciples participating in carrying Osho’s body, but what struck me in watching it on the video “I Leave You My Dream,” is how unemotional all these long time women devotees look — Ma Mukta, Ma Anando, Ma Neelam, Ma Avirbhava — any normal observer would have expected these women to be on the floor in a pool of heartbreak mush, but, oddly enough, they seem so well composed, so cooly together in this moment of travail. Odd — very odd indeed. And only 2 hours after their master had died. Almost unbelievable I would say.
I´m so angry, everywhere in internet where Our master is mentioned , there are ads and stuff from rajneesh see the page I found. it is disgusting
In a site with osho discourse ans sponsored by rajneesh
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/oshorajneesh/swamioshorajneesh.htm
He says pon his sponsored page:
“Osho Rajneesh also known as Swami Rajneesh is an Enlightened Disciple of Osho. As per my understanding, He is the only fully realized person at present on earth.”
He sent that to be published… who is he trying to confuse!!!!?
Kranti whether or not the pagoda is called a pagoda or something else is a matter of semantics. For your inability to understand this please ask OshoBob what he calls the structure that was on top of the podium and walk-way. This is perhaps the most unintelligent or misleading you have yet been.
The points I listed about resort decisions are simply examples of a systemic practice, the justification for is spiritual – other than the false practical reason for demolishing the pagoda.
Yes Kranti the Inner-Circle could not arrive at a consensus, and this is why we are where we are. What you fail to address is that where we are now is also not a consensus.
OshoBob you are being misleading with your statement that there is no pagoda. You have your technical linguistic reasons and that is fine. What is not fine is that people can easily be misled into thinking that the structure that sat upon the podium never ever existed in the first place. If you do not like to call it a pagoda than call it something else, but do not mislead people this way.
Alok John writes….Thats what I feel.. The level of understanding they [Jayesh and Amrito] have about Osho is very highly concious.. You can not question their understanding
To say noone can question their understanding is an utterly absurd infringement on the freedom and intelligence of individuals. It is also that type of view that supports ugly tyrannical political or religious systems: absolute and unquestioning respect to the regime.
The people that are attached or whatever about malas, or buildings, or ashes, or pictures are surely free to enjoy their trip, if that is what it is. Osho always had clear space for this, and it was central to a majority of his years as a Master. Why then was the opposition so strong to this to the extent that we are today so deeply divided? JA&Gang wanted completed control and so they have enforced a restricted and supposedly refined Zen version of Osho. This they have done illegitimately. They are still doing it today illegitimately.
Obviously supports of JA&Gang will have the view that they are making Osho more available, more understandable, and more suited to the needs of people today. Time will indeed be the test. How well is the new resort flourishing? How are all the associated centres going? How well are the book sales really? Are heavily edited compilations conveying a message that is really helping people, or just providing mass marketed entertainment (for profit)?
Yahoo
Abhay
Yeah right Shanti, that’s just a steaming pile of BS…
That stuff about Rajneesh — self-promoting — as the present day singular Mahakashyap, is just laughable to the extreme.
It is obfusction, it is ‘ilarious, it is so odd…
I tried to donate a negative 2 cents… but they didn’t want my donation.
I just watched Monty Python’s “The Life of Brian”again, it was on cable last night . highly recommended viewing. it reminds me of this whole nonsense with sannyas today. It’s on the IFC movie channel, on
Satellite or cable. Basic premise: how people can people can misinterpret what another person has said. Now it’s “Osho” Rajneesh instead of just swami, how disgusting. He’s another “wolf in sheep’s clothing”. Protect your bank accounts!!!!
my new conspiracy theory:
That rajneesh guy is in cahoots and working for those inner circle guys to get revenge on the sannyasin community for supporting the successful no trademark registration movement…
lol Osho Bob, from your last comments about the women who helped carry Osho ashes?
comman, be a bit more clear! What are you hinting at that was “odd”…comman, take the carrot out of the stick and open the can of worms
Because…there are a few more people who talk alot about this contentious issue..
Th ashes of Osho were protected by Dhyanesh, but it was possible to get some pieces, if you were courageous enough and clever.
We all were in some state of shock, when Osho left his body and felt like actors in some movie. The real emotions only broke free much later.
If the real ashes are still there at Osho Samadhi in Chuang Tzu hall is not clear.
The Samadhi was closed for two weeks a year ago under the excuse of installing a Osho statue (!). The ashes could have been removed and brought to
maybe London. Only very few people would know.
Devageet still has some teeths of Osho.
And last: original video footage of that time still exists.
Dear Shantam
At the time of death of my father, his body was accompanied by ladies too. My wife lit the pyre of my father in the Burning Ghats next day and performed other rites in my absence as I was away to UK and was unable to reach in time.
But I have every doubt about some conspiracy of Osho death and hushing up the matter, to take away the body for last rites to cremation grounds, about the litting of the pyre of Osho at 9 or 10 PM, at such late evening hours, which is not proper as per Indian culture. Indian culture on this subject says, to lit the pyre between sun rise to sun set only. After sun set is the time of Bhairo / Kalyug or Rahu or Demons.
What was the hurry to hush up burning of the body. They had not given the chance to the His people in India, to reach and participate in the procession and have last Darshan of Osho.
Definitely, some conspiracy was there which led to His early depart from this earth. Some people seem to be responsible to His body episode, which made Him to leave His body early. And this made to happen to avoid Police case/Enquiry/Post Martem etc.etc. and later made stories and crocodile tears.
Rajneesh slow walking swami stinks!
Thanks Alok John..
” Kranti whether or not the pagoda is called a pagoda or something else is a matter of semantics ”
I dont think it is semantics .. If thats the case ‘ adding significance to a building ‘ also semantics..isnt it?
To me it seems , It is not a special pagoda or stupa where relics are preserved.. It was a meditation hall.
When the money and growth happened a new auditorium was built as per Osho’s wishes.. So the olde one was transformed and used as a open hall for dancing and other progarms.
But Let me know why you think it is special apart from the fact that Osho delivered his discourses for number of years.. I can understand better.
” You can not question their understanding”
This the problem when we use language and that too in a forum..I didnt mean we accept tyrany and all. All i meant is they lived closer to Osho enough and looking at all the happenings they seem to understand Osho better than others.. Osho for What He Is ..
Osho himself extracted the essence of so many paths and made us understand then so easily..Otherwise we would have spent another 25 lives getting through the ‘dust ‘.. So what is the point of coloring Osho himself..
For lack of words we use the word ZEnnish.. But I dont think they are implementing ZEN approach..
Actually they are just being Oshotic
It is not Zen version of Osho. It is the Osho version of everything / all paths put together..
Briefly again,
The women were all composed that night because they knew Osho would have wanted it that way. He said celebrate eveything and that certainly included his passing into the beyond.
Amrito said Osho said “Take my body to Buddha Hall for a few minutes and then take me to the ghats.” I see no reason to disbelieve this. The announcement was made in Buddha Hall about 7pm and he was burnt around 9pm. You must remember there were lots of unstable sannyasins around, and to burn the body fast with the sannyasins there celebrating was probably the best way to avoid idiocy amongst sannyasins. Even then one person killed himself that night.
” Amrito said Osho said “Take my body to Buddha Hall for a few minutes and then take me to the ghats.” I see no reason to disbelieve this. The announcement was made in Buddha Hall about 7pm and he was burnt around 9pm.”
Thats where trust comes in..It is easy to disbelive and look for stories the mind asks for .. I will rather focus on what Osho gave when He lived ..Because thats what matters to us as sannyasins..
“Rajneesh slow walking swami stinks!”
I tend to agree There is something wrong with this guy. He is talking of silence but to me he looks aggressive and vulgar. I’ve read his book-more than enough. No need even to meet the man…. Too bad….
I am one of those second generation sannyasins (Puna 3), but have enough understanding not to buy his nonsense.
Sannyas world is getting truly crazy. Once all old sannyasins are gone I may see the real show starting….Sannyasins of Rajneesh etc coming up….
” he looks aggressive and vulgar”
Chetna.. did you see his remarks / personal attacks against Anthony & ZEN justifications..Or you are saying this without even seeing the same..See and let us know .. You will look into the dictionary for better word than aggressive and vulgar
That’s my opinion from seeing 10 min o his videos. And yes, I say one comment to Anthony re his girlfriend. Wow! The man does sleep out of his enlightment.
When I heardo him I was almost happy that finally someone is speaking out loud against some mistakes done by Pne, but now I think he is just dangerous to new sannyasins who run after energy and stories.
I am quite shocked to see that he has followers. Is everyone really asleep? The man may have some energy (?), but he is a clown.
forgive my spelling….
there is a difference between Sw Arun and Sw Keerthi taking up issues with Pune on differences of opinion and how Rajneesh is approaching the same.
Oh! I forgot Chtena.. He tore apart Osho himself stating Osho was a Rolls guru , He always acted out of poor man’s conditioning , he was money hugry , he exploited sannyasin labour to build the ranch and He was resposible for lot of stupid things which happen now etc etc.. I didnt want to repeat them Since you were not in touch with the forum for sometime i just highlighted..
I’ve looked a bit just now-scary and funny. I am in India now and hear that there is a camp with an enlight Master Rajneesh here and there. Thanks God he is not welcome in the communes that I stay at.
That’s it, I also declare myself enlightened. At least I won’t have to do any of Rajneshe’s camps.
I see the topic of Sw. Rajneesh popping up again. I saw the links posted by Shanti..shocking, amusing… I specially liked the quote “Osho Rajneesh also known as Swami Rajneesh is an Enlightened Disciple of Osho. As per my understanding, He is the only fully realized person at present on earth.”
It is good to be so blessed by such enlightening presence.
Mu interaction with him was one of my reasons for slowing down here in the forum.
It went like this:
• Anthony Thompson // Oct 5, 2009 at 10:39 pm
see… read the above thread. anyone with a bit of clarity can see what I mean by megalomaniac.
thanks rajneesh…you prove my point…actually, you are much better than me to prove my points.
thank you
• swami rajneesh // Oct 5, 2009 at 11:12 pm
“yes anthony
even your girlfriend mentioned secretly to me…
that perhaps i would be better than you…
at you know what…
and she would prove her point !!
at least i am glad be able to help you somewhere
where you may appear to be lacking…
anything for a friend or a girlfriend of a friend”
I was extremely offended by his dragging my girlfriend to the game.
Finally rajneesh suggested that people like me should have …” their heads needs to be sharply cut off”
and then artistically he added:
“and so far you have not placed one single clear argument and only vomited out your judgments
so i cut your head…or your your d++k off”
wow…I am shocked with so much enlightenment.
The video link to You tube posted by shanti (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooJ3yCrl-FM) seems like a satire of himself. It is hard to believe it is a real thing.
It is actually worrisome for someone like me who has studies the movement for so long to see something like this sprouting.
“I also declare myself enlightened ‘
Thats a good idea.. You dont have to go behind someone..
Recently with all these recessions there is a joke going around in my office is that everyone self decalres the designation they want ..since they dont get promotions..
Talking about enlightenment i came across this url about a Osho quote on enlightenment..Interesting as i never came across Osho saying this before
” “Enlightenment is the reward for watching yourself in action ”
http://www.anmolmehta.com/blog/2008/01/08/osho-quote-on-enlightenment/
What worries me is ( I may be wrong ) the kind of opportunism exhibited in attacking Inner Circle and Osho himself and positioning that as a rebellious movement
After all we had Osho attacking all other paths and attacking itself is not new to us..But the manner in which is done , the tragetted audience , the context , target on Samadhi , conflicting priorities when it comes to samadhi but attacking Osho , few gaurantess thrown in like whatever happened with Osho will not be allowed in future .. Its all confusing and dont fit it..
Anthony , What is your take on that pagoda and samadhi.. Oshobob explained there was never a pagoda in the first place..
I also agree.. The definition for pagoda is complex.. you cant just start calling a meditation hall ‘ pagoda ‘ just because it was destroyed and a new hall built as an alternative..
But what about samadhi.. I read somewhere that Osho himself designed that as His bedroom when He was in body..Was it converted later as samadhi?
I
Kranti. the information I have Is that Osho sent the old chwang Tzu auditorium, to be transformed into his new bedroom. they brought marble from carrara in Italy, the chandelier, etc. But he did not like it. he spent a night or so and went back to his old room.
Amrito reported osho saying before his death:
“He sat on the bed and I asked what we should do for his samadhi. You just put my ashes in chwang tzu, under the bed. And people can come and meditate there”
What Amrito argues is that osho never named or talked about that place as samadhi, but they did. So, it was not Osho´s assigned name to the place. The name he gave was chwang Tzu. Of course I have no way to know of this is true.
The roof of the podium had indeed a ” pagoda” look. But it is true Osho wanted a new auditorium where they could have loud dynamic and dancing and do not bother the neighbors.
hey guts have you noticed that Anurag, amitabh and meera, all disappeared at the same time when anurag went to brazil.
Strange ah?!
did he take them all with him?
Other day i was exchnaging some messages with Swami Keerthi to understand some point and he was explaining to me that Osho was very practical .. I can also see that from the things you mention here.. he never hung up on physical structures as though he would have mentioned certain things in a context..
Ofcourse i dont mean this post to be a judgement on Osho..Just my way of seeing Him from one more angle..
I was reading that Great Pilgrimge again today morning and went Wow!! So fresh.. He never seizes to amaze me..
Yes Shanti!
My GOD ! I didnt notice the co-incidence.. This is interesting ..
” they brought marble from carrara in Italy, the chandelier, etc. But he did not like it. he spent a night or so and went back to his old room”
They must have had enourmous love for the Man!
Love is not the word kranti… we simply adored him. We used to bring Diet coke from germany for him, conditioners and shampoos from all over the world and facial cream too.
We built a glass walk way for him in his garden ( where you have the vipassana retreats now)… and he used only once. he never knew his own ashram… he only once came out to see the multiversity plaza and that was it.
There you go again Ma Shanti !
” and he used only once. he never knew his own ashram… he only once came out to see the multiversity plaza and that was it. ”
I dont know what to say.. how can someone be like that..Whenever he says he never goes out of his room i used to think what else he will do .. How can someone be so blissful without any need to go out or see his own place out of curiocity etc.. Seeing how restless i am to do 1001 things all the time i am very nervous
Ya…Love seems to be a ordinary word compared to what He gave us..
Hope Shantam also shares His love for Osho for a change from the usual topics..
And not only Shantam whoever reads these posts now and who have Love for Osho in heart , if they share few lines it will be great!
Shanti is a crack-pot
you people talk about love
but you are full of hate and jealousy
the enligtended being is bound to be hated by the masses…
because he mirrors your uglyness
and your inferioritycomplexes
actually I feel compassion for you all..
you are all stuck to the past..
all you RAJNEESH-HATERS
clinging to your memories
like old people…..
so I was wrong… Meera was left behind to spread love and compassion… it is welcomed
Have put some historic photos of Pune, 1990, on flickr including the ghat in which Osho was burnt.
Enjoy.
They are here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44099901@N08/
alok john
good old days….
I still think meera, anurag, amitabh and rajneesh are one in the same. Way too coincidental they way they express themselves. OR were they all separated at birth??? It seems this guy has so few supporters that he has to conjure up different identities and post supportive responses to himself!!! Sounds like a severe case of schizophrenia to me.
HAHAHA BUBBI
going nuts……………. good…
Nice photos Alok J. You’re such a handsome devil!!!! Cheers
Thanks Aloke..Got to see your face ..
Prem Bubbie is right..You look handsome ..
I dont know about Amitabh and Meera….But Anurag and Rajneesh are the same.. Otherwise after saying a Big bye and meet you after sometime why he should keep sending so many posts thru Anurag.. If he has time to prepare messages he could have posted directly .. Why a middle man ? Not logical.. Thats why you could also see a desparation in Anurag to defend Rajneesh almost in every post.. The desperation sounded direct..no that of another person..
Right, Bubbie, there’s some very fishy identities swimming around at sannyasnews…that’s the nature of the beast though, on the net…
Alok John, thanks for posting those photos. Though I was hoping for some Jan. 19 documentary snapshots, I guess it wasn’t to be.
Your explanation of the reason for the Ma’s cool nature carrying off Osho’s body from Buddha Hall was quite a stretch for the imagination — they don’t look they are “celebrating” to me — looks more like a well rehearsed scene.
As we here are all wordsmiths of sorts, here’s an amazing etymology I just discovered about that word “pagoda.”
It seems it is a Portuguese word that was derived from the original Sanskrit word “bhagavata”, a feminine form of the word meaning “the blessed”, or “divine” — yes, that’s right — “Bhagwan” !!
The full Chinese word for their multi-storied Buddhist stupa relic/ash tombs is “baota”, a transliteration of “pagoda” shortened usually to just “ta” — one single Chinese character.
Amazing the buried facts that come out eventually if you hang tough on sannyasnews!
By the way Alok, I found your sannyas initiation date of July 1986 to be really interesting. Osho had just finished his Transmission of the Lamp talks in Uruguay, and was on his way to Bombay to start with what was to become The Osho Upanishad talks.
Those Transmission of the Lamp talks (this title, btw, copy and pasted directly from the 11th century Chinese Zen “bible” of the same name) were a series that was spoken to just a small group, maybe 20, of very close sannyasins sitting together in a room in South America. Unlike any of his other discourses.
I have just put up the whole series at my website in mp3 audio files, for free immediate playback. You’ll feel like you are sitting in that same room with Osho, 5 feet away. 46 talks. Here’s the link:
http://www.livingworkshop.net/ob-transofthelamp.html
Thank you Oshobob.. I will listen straightaway..before sleeping off
There is a general pattern taking place here that seems unlikely to change. Shantam would have it that it is like the uncompromising battle between Israel and Palestine. I disagree uncompromisingly. This is why. Anthony and Kranti and others have made their views known. There issues have been responded to. The critical point is that rather than addressing the responses Anthony and Kranti and others simply repeat their former viewpoint. They have clearly not changed their position at all. Perhaps they have not read the responses because they assume the responses will anyhow be unintelligent and illegible. Perhaps they have read the responses and consider them not worthy of reply. Another possibility is that they have seen that the responses are a clear and direct challenge to their understanding. If this is the case they may be unable to rebut the counter-position. There are two possibilities here. Perhaps they feel they are right, but have not the intellectual capacity to adequately respond. If this is the case then it is therefore also the case that the counter-position holders have a high intellectual capacity - above the establishment’s supporters. Perhaps however they feel that they are wrong. If there is a sense that they are wrong then this puts immense pressure on their personal worth. They have to some extent publicly announced their views, and to have these views quashed would be humiliating. In this way they may prefer to stubbornly hold on to their unviable position simply because they are unwilling to accept the public humiliation. If an unbiased and half intelligent person reads through the debate they will be wondering why no replies were made. They will also be wondering what might be credible replies. It is like when Kranti and OshoBob intentionally or otherwise led people to think that the structure surrounding Osho as he talked in Buddha Hall never existed in the first place. A subtle shift had it that the structure was dismantled. Again this is an obfuscation of the truth that it was an existing structure that was smashed into little pieces (demolished) in the middle of the night. A clear reply was made to make sure there was no misunderstanding about the actually existence and demolishing of an actual structure - call it what you like. Ironically OshoBob has followed his own way of understanding and reached to a meaning for the term ‘pagoda’ that actually fits beautifully with the pagoda. That OshoBob has done this shows he is not entrenched in a certain belief about the pagoda, and is open to new ideas and understandings. He demonstrates that he does not have a preconceived view about the status of the pagoda. A preconceived view would mean an argument was created about the pagoda to back up this preconceived view. If he had of done so he would either have not done the research to find out a deeper meaning of the term pagoda, or else he would not have shared what he found out. If you want people like Prem Abhay, Amitabh, Anurag, Swami Rajneesh (and many others) to move towards a consensus then the issues that they have raised need to be addressed. In this way these rebellious supposed guru trippers will have some substantive material to work with that challenges their understanding. If you disagree with my appraisal then I give here some material for you. Why does Anthony simply repeat his first position (copy and paste), when there have been many and varied responses? Why does Kranti do the same? Each time there is a response to Kranti’s critique of Abhay or Rajneesh, Kranti simply repeats his original position. Kranti and Anthony and others need to do more than just ignore the other position, or simply say it is wrong or trivial. They need to explain why it is that it is wrong or trivial, or why they have ignored it. This has not been done, and leaves a very big question mark over the establishment’s entire credibility. Another example is the overarching conclusion that the Inner-Circle are acting making spiritually justified decisions that impact on spiritual matters, that this conduct is outside their practical mandate, and they are therefore illegitimate. There have been no replies to this position.
Vote for Change
http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com
I’ll make my request that the owners/operators of this “social network?” consider doing any of my ideas that they consider useful:
a) do nothing because everything is always perfect exactly as it is
b) add IP numbers to posts so those who care can see how many post from which IP address
c) play a guessing game with us where we ask if someone posts from the same IP address as another - and we get a yes or no answer
d) prevent multiple posters (”sock puppets”) from the same IP address
e) offer other ideas
thanks,
-garimo
My dear Garimo, you have valid ideas though I think none of them will work. it is too easy to hide one’s IP address, there are web sites that allow users to use another IP address other than one’s own. A person can also use a friend’s computer or an internet computer at a public university or library. i am all for some simple questions to be answered, as Shantam Prem has done, to those certain posters whose true identity is in question. But the impostors can be easily spotted if you have your eyes open. Trust is too freely given to those who post here. Trust the great cosmos blindly, otherwise trust needs to be earned.
Hey Prem Bubbie,
I think “a)” is very doable!
I used to be more active on Tribe.net and it did become overwhelmed with sock puppets. (Tribe is way larger than Sannyasnews with thousands) Eventually the owner went on a sock hunting spree and deleted many accounts and publicly exposed some of the major puppet masters who contributed to the anarchy. (puppets as art forms lived on…) It seemed to improve the quality of content greatly.
I understand there’s ways around everything, I understands reasons why someone would want an alt…
and at times I’m not opposed to making being deceptive more difficult. I think make ‘em work for it. Let ‘em put their pants on and go use the library computer when it’s open if they need to disguise their identity.
A sort of tethering the camels.
-g
” critical point is that rather than addressing the responses Anthony and Kranti and others simply repeat their former viewpoint. ”
So Harri Om , Abhay and others have changed / evolved thru their view points and moving towards different understanding than the one they started with ???
Is that we we are supposed to understand?
What change in view points we have seen from Harri Om , Abhay and others?
Atlleast the so called Anthony , Kranti and others have accepted few changes they want to see / that they dont agree with everything as it is / by and large they are in agreement with how things are happening etc
Have we seen any such acceptance of others view s/ dilution / chnage of view points from others? they have not even come down from their position of calling people as Criminals and Thugs leave alone discussing and changing view points
Harri Om.. The last post your is very deceptive ..you tried establishing something which is not true and in reality it is the opposite..
tethering camels hahahaaa
you should tether YOUR camel FIRST…
all of you were brought up in capitalistic controll states
Germany was a good example
how TOTAL CONTROL
over others functions…
If anyone was against the criminal establishement
the secret Police would come the SS
and get that person and deporet him to a ´work camp´ where these people were burnt in gaschambers…
this is exactly the same idea as Garimo is suggesting…
figure out who is against the establishment.
find out their IP
and eleminate them
so all the idiots are left over on this planet ..
they have the power .. t
hey have all the war weapons…
they can burn the rebels and artists and mystics
they have no love
only LUST FOR POWER
just change your poison into honey
and you can create a paradies on earth…
banning s.o for slow walking from the resort
only proves that these people are perverted criminals
full of lust for power
they don´t want to be disturbed in their fucking and hugging
they contribute nothing to the world
just spreading their EGOgames..
they have no love
only jealousy , hatred ,envy
they believe they still have controll over stupid Indians
the