Author of “Life in Orange” found dead
Former Osho Medina boy sannyasin, Yogesh, who later in life became the writer Tim Guest, died, at the age of 34, having suffered a suspected heart attack. He was found dead in bed by his wife Jo. Despite efforts at resuscitation she was unable to revive him. Yogesh lived in North London and died last week.
Tim Guest and his wife Jo at their recent wedding.
Guest was the author of the memoir My Life in Orange (Granta), which told the story of his childhood growing up in Medina and Oregon. He described commune life for a reluctant sannyasin kid as “somewhere between Peter Pan and Lord of the Flies”!
His second book sometimes described as brilliant, called Second Lives (Hutchinson) explored the appeal of virtual worlds. Hollywood was also impressed with the second book, and film rights were acquired for Brad Pitt.
Tim wrote for newspapers, including The Guardian, The Observer and the Telegraph Magazine, and had been interviewed on Richard and Judy.
The results of a post-mortem examination will be known next week, with friends saying the most likely cause of death was a heart attack or stroke.
In My Life in Orange, which was published when Guest was 27, to mixed reviews, he told the story of his mother’s rejection. However Yogesh failed to see that this rejection had nothing to do with being in an Osho commune, it could have been in a pre-Raphaelite or any other commune. Hence the book is badly titled “My Life in orange” as the Osho movement took the blame for his mother’s casting off, but actually the rejection was simply a rejection. Ma Prem Vismaya, his mother wrote a deeper book of reply called “in the Dark and still moving” (Anne Geraghty: The Tenth Bull). Both books are worth reading for students of the early and commune periods of sannyas.
Majid (Barnaby Burch), who grew up with Guest in the Medina commune in Suffolk, said his family were “devastated” by his death.
Majid who was Yogesh’s closest friend in the virtual world they created in Medina - to escape what they saw as a difficult environment - said that he last saw him for his stag party in Berlin in October and his wedding to Jo at Islington Town Hall the week afterwards. He said his death had come as a “huge shock”.
“He was in his mid-30s, had his whole life ahead of him, starting to really make his name in journalism and writing, he had just got married and was really, really happy,” he said. “It was a really good time for him and his death is all the more tragic for that. I can only imagine how Jo must be feeling.
“I just remember him as my geeky, gawky friend, and the days post commune of roaming around Hampstead Heath on our bikes, playing computer games, sharing our favorite books. I got to see him blossom and develop into a grown man, but I will always remember him as a nine-year-old boy.”
As someone who taught both Yogesh and Majid in the Medina commune that too is how I too will remember him. A boy living in his own world, surrounded by a wider commune life that he found inimical. Maybe even a little tortured by what he must have experienced as a very difficult life as he was a-growing. It is no surprise to me that the book that he will be remembered most for is about a virtual world.
Anand Parmartha
Sad!
In this forum , just few months back few people quoted these kind books to back up their arguements against life around Osho.. Again living in a virtual worlds..
End of the day carrying negatice experiences doesnt help..It doesnt matter how famous / successful one becomes later on..be it a Tim Guest or a Michael Jackson
The more i see these kind of experiences the more i love & respect Osho for the way He make us drop the burden of the past and live life lighter & fuller..
Being a sannyas kid was no picnic.
Having narcissistic parents, being part of a pirate criminal enterprise. Being hit on by older men repeatedly.
The manipulative trips and brainwashing.
Its clear that some of you are still in a cult mentality of hypocrisy screaming freedom and rebellion yet being sheep and not self thinkers.
Jeesh.
Being around Osho was no joke for some, and especially some children who would never have chosen the communes in the first place. The whole business of children being conveniently parked by adult sannyasins in communes whilst they carried on with their so exciting, but arguably selfish lives has never been fully examined.
How far is selfishness a sort of permissable business when a seeker?
There are no easy answers to this.
Some resilient and extroverted children benefited greatly from commune life, and they were the ones who felt secure that their parents loved them and made an effort to see them as part of their own commune life. Others did not do this, and that is where suffering occurred for these children. Swami Yogesh seems to have been one of those.
It is one of the darker sides of any new experiment..People can get dragged along without their liking.. But that is the case in any aspect of society..Whether it is a religion or other social set ups in which children are born into..
In which society and social structure children are asked what is their liking.. They are always forced into structures followed by parents..
Whiel any other religious / social set ups would have given a kind SAFETY to the children they also snatched their individuality …Infact thats the whole reason A OSHO had to come..
And i also think we can blame all the adults who wer part of he commune.. So many of them would have had all the good intentions and they would have liked their children to inherit a freedom which the society outside would not have given… So it is very subjective..
It is one of the darker sides of any new experiment..People can get dragged along without their liking.. But that is the case in any aspect of society..Whether it is a religion or other social set ups in which children are born into..
In which society and social structure children are asked what is their liking.. They are always forced into structures followed by parents..
Whiel any other religious / social set ups would have given a kind SAFETY to the children they also snatched their individuality …Infact thats the whole reason A OSHO had to come..
And i also think we can not blame all the adults who wer part of he commune.. So many of them would have had all the good intentions and they would have liked their children to inherit a freedom which the society outside would not have given… So it is very subjective..
Great sadness for those close to Yogesh, such a loss is tremendously painful.
Kranti, you are right on about kids not choosing the manner in which they are raised, and really at 27, most people are feeling somehow negative about their family of origin (listen to any therapy group). I wonder if he reflected back on his childhood during middle age, he might have seen (and appreciated) what a unique experience he had in his childhood? The obituary offering one consolation, that he died extremely happy; if we can create this for ourselves-all the better a remembrance of impermanance in a young man’s death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Guest
Yes Atmo Lahar ..
Recently we had such detailed posting on Mickael Jacson’s chilhood miseries and how it stayed with him until the end.. I wonder whether MJ really wanted to become a singer at all.. May be he wanted to be come a footbal payer..who knows?
In all the media news on Tim Guest , the osho movement is referred to as a Religion or Cult…Nothing can be farther from truth.. So Tim’s case is very specific & subjective and it may not have anything to do with orange people at all.. he simply projected His pains & bitteress on the commune living..
Pravin ” Its clear that some of you are still in a cult mentality of hypocrisy screaming freedom and rebellion yet being sheep and not self thinkers”
Osho is different from Osho movement … I agree.. A Master and Followers are always different…Any following will have its limitations as it comprises of people who are still struggling as Fish out of water.. You can blame them for their limitations
If Osho movement is cult then you dont have space in this universe to follow anything else.. Osho movement is by far the closest when it comes to freedom ..
Ofcourse you can choose to be an individual and self thinker… Thats what Osho always insisted..not being part of mob.. But that comes with its own self delusions and limitations..
I meant ” You can NOT blame them for their limitations”
The Osho movement was pretty cultish in the days of the Orange people and Medina.
Pravin wrote : “Having narcissistic parents being part of a pirate criminal enterprise. Being hit on by older men repeatedly. The manipulative trips and brainwashing.”
I can well believe this is a fair description though maybe “pirate” is a bit exaggerated.
As a psychotherapist and professor of psychology, i find a huge generalization to say that all sannyasins were narcissistic. second, to be a child in a place with rules that differ from the conventional society and that not being your own choice is a nightmare no matter where you are. If you add to that a longing for closeness with the mother and that need unfulfilled… it is pretty awful.
I interviewed many sannysin kids that not only felt benefited by the experience, but loved it. It all depends on the kid.
As a researcher on the movement, such a bold generalizations are just childish.
The kid had a bad time.. that is his truth and it is unquestionable. To develop and assign a negative meaning system to the movement , osho and his teaching because of that is simply the result of lack of awareness and information.
actually the event that triggered the book: a kid from kho suan found hanging from a tree, was misinterpreted by Tim. the kid hang himself by accident, it was not a suicide for his awful time in the sannyas school.
” actually the event that triggered the book: a kid from kho suan found hanging from a tree, was misinterpreted by Tim. the kid hang himself by accident, it was not a suicide for his awful time in the sannyas school.”
This is news to me..It makes it even more critical to look at Tim’s case as something very specific & nothing to do with his environment…
Anthony wrote : “As a psychotherapist and professor of psychology, i find a huge generalization to say that all sannyasins were narcissistic.” Actually Pravin wrote : “Having narcissistic parents…”
But did you go round Medina, Anthony? It was sannyas but it was bloody English as well. The sannyasins who lived there, a self-selecting bunch, accepted an authoritarian regime, to say the least. Tim’s mother narcissistic, I think so. Have a look at her book. Poonam who ran Medina, also narcissistic in my opinion, have a look at her interview on you tube. Several of the therapists and group participants, narcissistic, as well I think.
If any sannyas “Kids” were coerced into sex without their consent, this still might be prosecutable, and I would be willing to give what support I can (mainly moral support) to any “Kid” who wished to explore this option.
Alok John MA Oxford.
Just google “narcissistic personality disorder ” and you will find tons of information on the disorder.
Alok. I like that you put your master in oxford after your name… it makes me laugh at my self.
I do not need to google the disorder… it is my profession remember?
My feeling, dear john is that this is a sensitive subject due to your own abuse experiences. I am also aware that you went to medina some times. also aware you did not like the mamas there. understandable. probably they must have judge you psychologically unfit.
What I am saying is that Tim experience in valid. But that does not mean it was the experience of all the sannyas kids.
actually I talked to many of them and many not only liked the experience of living in the communes but felt deeply benefited by them.
finally to state that all sannyas parents are narcissistic seems a huge generalization to me.
I know Claire soloway ( poonam) personally. she does not look narcissistic to me. neither Anne gerarthy ( vismaya).
But they might have been a pain ion the ass as rules… I can concede that.
Alok / Anthony.. You guys make me feel sad when talking about your exeperiences in various communes.. You guys have lived a rich life around Osho..Wish i had such opportunities..
Kranti wrote
“Alok / Anthony.. You guys make me feel sad when talking about your exeperiences in various communes.. You guys have lived a rich life around Osho..Wish i had such opportunities..”
I don’t know, Kranti, it was an extremely hard life for me. It was a rich life but I would not have chosen it if I could have had an easier life. Better to work in corporations if you can manage it, I think. Don’t underestimate the foolishness, pressure, craziness and insanity of the Orange people. They accepted a fascist regime in Oregon that only just avoided a Waco-like shoot out. Osho paid for the craziness with his life in the end.
Anthony wrote : “I do not need to google the disorder… it is my profession remember?” But I did not write that just for you, Anthony.
Anthony wrote : “finally to state that all sannyas parents are narcissistic seems a huge generalization to me.” Of course you are right.
Anthony wrote : “probably they must have judge you psychologically unfit.”
We don’t call people ‘psychologically unfit’ in England these days. Sounds like something from the eugenics movement.
I take your point that many of the children thrived in the Communes, but not all obviously.
Given the cult of sexual freedom of the times, it is entirely possible that sometimes adults overstepped the mark in the communes. I just think one should be alert to this possibility. In Morven Fyfe’s book on child abuse, I say no one notices child abuse in England unless it jumps up and bites them on the nose. So just be alert.
Alok. psychologically unfit is not s psychological term. It is a popular term. the psychological word is borderline.
what i meant was that they ( the mamas) must have thought you has certain psychological characteristics which made you unsuited for their program… or simply that did not like you
who knows.
I have only just discovered this news, yet strangely enough I was thinking about Tim/Yogesh recently.
I’d like to respond by sharing my own memory and impression of him.
Tim came to a festival of literature in Swindon,where I live and gave a talk based on his book, ‘My Life in Orange’ I challenged him by pointing out that, considering the difficulties in his family background - his relationship with his father as much as his Mother, he would not have suffered just as much, if not more, had she not become involved with Osho.
He interpreted that as posing a question of whether or not he blamed Osho for his experiences, and his response was he did at one time but not any more…
I also felt, reading his book that, despite the pain he experienced and his criticism of the commune, for me his vivid descriptions of life at that time evoked strong memories and reflected something of the beauty and fragrance of what I experienced - and continue to experience - around Osho.
I attempted to give this feedback to Tim at the end of his talk in Swindon, by saying I felt there was something ‘unsaid’ in his writing, and that I felt he was connected in some way with Osho in his heart.
His response was that he didn’t understand that: he then muttered that he had a train to catch and promptly disappeared through the nearest door. In that moment I saw for myself that small child that he’d described so well in his book, always running off through some door or another at Medina.
My feeling is that on some deeper level he did recognise and sense something about Osho and the energy surrounding him and was afraid. I think of him as being a bit like the character described in one of the Osho tarot cards who finds a door and knows that if he opens it behind it he will find God. But he the realises this will also be an end to all his adventures and seeking and searching, and so runs away, determined to go anywhere in order to avoid that door.
I can understand the shock and sadness that those connected with him must feel with him leaving his body so young. And yet, somehow it feel to me as if perhaps he’d reached some point of completion, having lived though such a difficult and lonely childhood but then eventually finding happiness. Perhaps in his next life time he will find the courage to go through that door that he’s been avoiding.
Regarding the debate about how much the commune is responsible: I don’t think it was all just a lack of caring and responsibility - I think part of it was an attempt to allow children more freedom and not impose all kinds of conditionings on them.
At the event in Swindon, after Tim had left, a guy came over to me and told me his story of how he had to physically escape and run away in order to break free of the Christian commune he had grown up in. I think that puts it into perspective: whatever the short-comings of Medina, at least Tim was eventually given the choice to leave and live in the outside world with his family.
Alok ” Better to work in corporations if you can manage it, I think. Don’t underestimate the foolishness, pressure, craziness and insanity of the Orange people.”
I respect your experiences.. every organization comes with its political games and unconcious behaviour..I worked in big corporates for the last 14 years.. If you ask me to describe all my experiences in word.. i will say ‘ I AM JUST FED UP ‘… It is just not worth the money.. What we pay is Physical & Mental health and more importantly you are forced to play such ugly games to just to survive.. If you refuse to play you are out..
Todays corporations are just Soul Destroyers…May be we are reaching the end of all the ugliness and wheels will change..
Kranti, I worked in a corporation for a year, it was awful, so I am sure you are right. The problem is of course we all have to get money from somewhere, so we just make the best choices we can.
Used to wonder why we shouldnt have a system of governing countries where basic livelihood of people are equally taken care and rest of the aspects left to individuals..just a thought..nothing related to socialism kind of stuff..
I was involved with the Rajneesh movement for years. I was a sanyassin. Everybody who joined did so for a reason I think. Although I think there was a lot of social irresponsibility starting with the man himself, it was fun. It was very scary. It was an adventure. It showed me things about life I would never have seen otherwise. It taught me that you can love life, and I’ve been working from that ever since.
We are here for a reason, and it’s not just to pay the rent! A lot of the people I met through the movement were FAR OUT! Lovely people.
In the end it’s all about love, truth and God. That’s what I learned through my encounter with Bhagwan, Osho or whatever you want to call him. I wouldn’t take that time back.
Clive
Nice to see your post… I can feel the impact of Osho on you..
But you say ‘ I was a sanyassin ‘..
Is that ‘ was ‘ meant ?
Merlina..
Thank you for a very insightful and beauitiful post…
” My feeling is that on some deeper level he did recognise and sense something about Osho and the energy surrounding him and was afraid. ”
This point hit me deeply…
It makes me think about even other epople who had been close to Osho but somewhat left Him and now coming out with bitter stories.. just wondering your insight can be apllied to someone else say a Calder also..
Seems possible..But you never know ..isnt it?
You say ” a guy came over to me and told me his story of how he had to physically escape and run away in order to break free of the Christian commune he had grown up in ”
I knew Christian monastries / communities where children are kind of gifted to ..by parents.. The child is never asked what he wants in life.. I recall the incident of a mysterious death of one such young boy where a friend of mine was studying to become a priest..
Like you said people had choices around Osho ..you cant say the same with other groups / communes ..can we?
There was a post mortem, does anyone know what it said?
Hi Kranti
Yes, it probably does apply to others also - I remember Osho saying at one point that people leave because they are really avoiding the master and their own transformation, but won’t admit to this so have to find some other justification.
Perhaps the fear is in all of us to some extent - the ego will always try to resist and avoid anything that threatens to dissolve it.
Re. Tim - I also wonder about the outcome of the post-mortem - if it was a heart attack. Maybe the fear in him was directly connected with his heart and allowing love in.
He had committed himself to climbing up the greasy pole of a writing career in totalitarian England. When it all got too much he could not chuck it in and do dynamic because he would lose his credibilty.
He probably had unexpressed anger towards his mother as well. Although the two books imply that the relationship was “healed”, therapy with such a powerful “therapist” as his mother can easily degenerate into re-abuse.
In most of the photos he looks terrible.
See Against Therapy by Jeffrey Masson.
” See Against Therapy by Jeffrey Masson’
Alok..Sorry for being dumb.. I couldnt get your last point. I had a look at Jeffrey Masson site.. What photos you are referring to?
Sorry, I just meant that in most of the photos I have seen of Tim, on the web, he does not look good.
Jeffrey Masson wrote several books illustrating the ease in which psychotherapy may be misused, but Tim’s photo is not in his books.
We all get things forced upon us as children. Catholicism or Islam or what gave you. Kids are forced to accept their parents beliefs all the time, who are you kidding only to slam Osho and sannyasins? Most of us sannyasins took sannyas because of our screwed up, and abusive childhoods and the madness our parents tried to force feed us as children. I, for one am eternally grateful for Osho’s existence. Waking up from a deep coma is almost impossible, I got lucky. So zip it you ranch and Ashram critics, we were lucky to just get the dam things up and running. The human species is probably the most fucked up species on the planet earth- just look around you. Complain about that instead. Nothing is ever good enough for us!! Just keep meditating and keep your eyes open. Just about all we can do.
I agree with Bubbie
Clive, are you Clive from Hendon who once emailed me? We were going to meet?
prem bubbie… very good punch..
Why dont you please join other threads also..
Thanks Alok for the post..
“” Waking up from a deep coma is almost impossible, I got lucky ”
Very True..
Oflate i was in life situations where i came in contact with deep unconciousness of people. I realized how lucky we are to have this small opening which made us understand Osho..
I think humans are getting more unconscious. These last 15 years, I feel, the neurosis is getting worse, meditativeness and loving energy is shrinking. Competitiveness and narcissism is growing. Now India is turning Capitalistic- A Hindu caste system/ Capitalistic country?!!? May all the enlightened ones help us!!! Communist China going capitalistic?!! Who ever heard of a Communist/capitalistic country? It’s an oxymoron. It’s like saying the Ranch was a commune. You have primitive cultures running amok with greed. Poverty, pollution, exploitation are increasing very rapidly. Only through love and meditation can we save our selves(maybe). Then we can save the earth.
Bubbie wrote : “These last 15 years, I feel, the neurosis is getting worse, meditativeness and loving energy is shrinking. Competitiveness and narcissism is growing.”
I agree Bubbie.
Greetings to all sannyasins!
Just two words about new discovery in changing the energies that are confusing alot of Osho´s children and that the answer is the Heart where this energy is changing very fast and the covering voiceless voices within!
We´ve discovered that *soror Terezinha du Petit Osho,Yashu,Meher Baba,Sai Baba,Ramana,etcs is the daughter that have come as rescue remedy,love,
amrit